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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 6/27/2010 5:51:18 AM
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herestoresmysoul
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Those who are married can committ pornea. It means, as benelchi says, many different types of sexual immorality. Those who are married, can committ sexual sin with a person who they arent married to without full sexual intercourse, such as oral sex, heavy petting, sexual contact with someone of the same sex, molesting of women or children, sexual contcat with animals etc etc. These things are 'pornea' and are therefore can be a reason to divorce as well as adultery.
There are many ways of sinning sexually as well as full intercourse.
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 7/14/2010 1:56:10 AM
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cure4divorce
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Conclusion of the Man and Woman from 1 Cor 7:10-11
So both 1 Cor 7:10, and 11a and 11b do not indicate the ‘way’ or ‘reason’ the divorce specifically occurred (sexual immorality or not) just that it did. The words Paul uses here in Greek are general words (10-11b) so we can conclude the believer is commanded not to divorce their husband or wife for any reason, as long as the other party is willing to remain in the marriage.
The Woman
The root Greek word “separate” 1 Cor 7:10-11a is also used in verse 15a which is a general word meaning the separating of one from the other, indicating a divorce (also used in Matt 19:6 ‘what God has joined together let man not separate’). Paul said in 1 Cor 7:15a that the unbeliever “separates” from the marriage (with no fault of the Christian themselves) we can presume the separation word did not necessary mean (and probably not) for any biblical purposes.
The Man
For the man to “leave” 1 Cor 7:11b his wife, the Greek word has a since of ‘dismiss’ or “remit” associated with it (as used in Mark 2:7, 10). Tthe Greek word “leave” 1 Cor 7:11b is also used in 1 Cor 7:12-13 indicating that the Christian thought they were too divorce their spouse because the Law commanded them to (Ezra 10:2-3). Although the Greek word “leave” in 11b would indicate the husband probably thought they had biblical grounds to divorce his wife, this was not be specifically indicated by Paul's writing here (and not meant too). Meaning we are not to presume the wife committed “sexual immorality” in the marriage for the husband of 11b to divorce her. The reason for the divorce is suppose to be regardless the situation.
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 7/22/2010 7:30:17 PM
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cure4divorce
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I believe the first part of Matt 5:32a and 19:9a was in fact Jesus, though focusing on their sin and not their rights, acknowledge Deut 24:1 (the religious leaders and those who thought they were in the right) though for the most part were not doing it for this reason. So, that is why the latter part of Matt 5:32b and 19:9b Jesus said IN GENERAL that whoever marries a put away woman, commits adultery also (this was a general statement as said in Mark 10:11-13 and Luke 16:18). If you notice Jesus does not address the person, who was put away improperly, but only those who were questioning Jesus in their rights to put away their wife/husband or those who thought they had a right to marry them. Although Matt chapter 5 Jesus was talking to the Multitudes of people, and not the religious leaders, but still Jesus was showing them of their need of a Savior and need to “surpass” the righteousness of the Pharisees and teachers of the Law who were questioning Jesus for the man’s right to put away his wife for “any reason” Matt 19:3.
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/7/2010 1:15:57 PM
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jaimestarcross
Posts: 764
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quote:
Aim2Plze: Why Are Christian Divorce Rates The Same As Non-Christians?
I find it appalling that the divorce rate for Christians is the same as non-Christians. Is it because couples look at their vows as "suggestions" rather than their commitment to the Lord and each other?
*I'm sorry but I don''t agree because marriage is not only a USA situation -- there's a whole world of people
and lots of them are married. The statistics for the USA don't reflect every nation or country.
I still don't believe the statistics reflect the whole matter because many who claim to be Christian are people
marking that box because they think there's a God or Creator. Then there's the fact that the ones who do divorce aren't first timers either(many of them have two or more divorces under their belts)... I don't recall any of the statistics that I have read ever mentioning that.
_____________________________
(Charlotte's Web)
"Why did you do all this for me?" he asked. "I don't deserve it. I've never done anything for you."
"You have been my friend," replied Charlotte. "That in itself is a tremendous thing."
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/31/2010 4:34:25 PM
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cure4divorce
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quote:
ORIGINAL: keepingfaith
quote:
How should this woman be counseled then?
Is it acceptable to obtain a legal separation, which ends the marriage in every way, except the final divorce decree? That seems to me to put form over substance.
Please reread my post a few more times (specifically focus on the scriptures, not my words). A separation does not end a marriage, neither does divorce...only death does (Rom 7, 1cor7:39)
I would tell her not to take the counsel of strangers on a forum. I only point others to the counsel of the Lord. I believe Jesus and Paul have already spoken and given their counsel.
I know many faithful obedient spouses standing in faith in the midst of their spouse’s treachery. Even in the midst of their spouse entering an adulterous affair under the guise of remarriage, sometimes where the wayward spouse is taking care of another family that is not even theirs while their own flesh and blood suffers. The faithful spouse's reflection of God’s love and unconditional forgiveness could be the very thing that saves the wayward spouse, their children, and leads others to Christ.
I would tell her that God’s grace is sufficient and He will take care of her during this time. And that with God all things are possible, so there is always HOPE, and not to give up. Scripture tells us we will suffer and sacrifice for the sake of the Gospel, but I believe whatever we go through will be worth it and God will use it for our good.
God has restored many marriages that most would have written off as unredeemable. Nothing is too hard for God. This should not be looked at as a hopeless situation, it should be looked at as an opportunity to glorify God and have an amazing testimony that will be a witness for Christ one day.
a certificate of divorce does end the marriage. For since Moses "permitted" this we know it was a way for the marriage to end. It was not permitted in the "beginning" Matt 19:6 but was allowed latter by Moses (loosing here on earth) by God's authority given to him. Otherwise what good is a divorce but too. If you look at the meaning of covenant if there are pre clauses written in the covenant then the covenant is allowed to be nullified when "broken" Jer 31:31-33 by the other party Heb 8:11-13. It is a sad case and Christians are not to follow the way of the world but only if the woman committed sexaul immorality in the marriage and is divorced by her husband is this the only scriptural complete divorce that allows remarriage, possibly in the future.
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 9/1/2010 10:29:52 AM
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RYNODOG
Posts: 664
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quote:
Aim2Plze: Why Are Christian Divorce Rates The Same As Non-Christians?
I find it appalling that the divorce rate for Christians is the same as non-Christians. Is it because couples look at their vows as "suggestions" rather than their commitment to the Lord and each other?
I am right there with you on this Aim2Plze! The reasons are so very deep. I have only seen the tip of the ice berg and dived into the water to see that the mass of ice is so deep and wide. I certainly do not understand it all. The devil has been working against marriage from the very beginning. Christianity has been infected with individualism, self-fulfillmentism, moral relativism and other diseases.
Also, this new teaching has opened up Pandora's box...
quote:
a certificate of divorce does end the marriage.
For the first 1500 years of Christianity divorce did not end a marriage. (check out the early Church leaders writings). Nothing but death could separate what God joined. Christ restored marriage to its original intent. Christ's life in us gives us the power to live this out.
Why have Christians taught for 2000 years that divorce does not end a marriage?
1) Jesus said that the two are NO LONGER two, but become one.
Matthew 19:6
6Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
2) Paul plainly upholds this Truth
1 Corinthians 7:39 (King James Version)
39The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.
3) If divorce did separate what God joined... if divorce did "end" a marriage... then the next relationship would not be adultery. Our Lord plainly calls it adultery. Therefore divorce, the putting away of a spouse, does not end a marriage. It is adultery because the first marriage does not end, even though we may think we end it with a civil divorce or some sin.
Luke 16:18
18Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.
As we have made Christ more us-like we have needed less to be more Christ-like. As we have removed the Truth of indissoluble marriage, charity has slid into sentimentalism. This new "false charity" places happiness and self fulfillment as its mission. It shuns the cross that true Christians are sometimes called to bear. We create a God "Who could not possibly ask me to be faithful and love that person for life."
Please do not take this to the extreme. There are certainly times when a spouse needs to separate and protect him/herself and/or children. This does not, however, separate something that God joined. It may be a heavy cross to bear to, from a distance, remain faithful to an abusing or adulterous spouse. Is this cross heavier than the cross that Christ carried for us? Let us imitate Christ with a love that always hopes and perseveres and never ends and a forgiveness that is always open to reconciliation upon true repentance.
Through Christ this is possible!!!!
Bryan
LOVE SO AMAZING
< Message edited by RYNODOG -- 9/2/2010 1:48:28 PM >
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 9/6/2010 5:55:38 PM
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Faithfilled4life
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quote:
Matthew 19:6
6Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
When this scripture is used is everyone trying to say that every marriage is one that God put together? Are you saying that even if it's a marriage where the couple did not seek God's input, or hear clearly that the marriage was in God's will, that He still joined them because they legally got married somewhere?
For those who believe the Bible expressly forbids divorce, regardless of whether someone legally divorces and remarries. Can't it be argued that a couple who marry according to the laws of their land, but not with God's seal of approval, aren't married in His eyes?
I believe that God loves His people and created marriage for us, not the other way around.
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 9/6/2010 11:18:54 PM
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RYNODOG
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Matthew 19:6
6Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
quote:
When this scripture is used is everyone trying to say that every marriage is one that God put together? Are you saying that even if it's a marriage where the couple did not seek God's input, or hear clearly that the marriage was in God's will, that He still joined them because they legally got married somewhere?
For those who believe the Bible expressly forbids divorce, regardless of whether someone legally divorces and remarries. Can't it be argued that a couple who marry according to the laws of their land, but not with God's seal of approval, aren't married in His eyes?
What does it take to gain God's "seal of approval?"
Bryan
LOVE SO AMAZING
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 9/7/2010 9:39:09 AM
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car2nist
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I do find it interesting that if it is a first marriage, even if God told the couple not to marry, and they did anyway that now somehow it has become a blessed union to be held onto until death.
So this disobedience to God, which is sin, becomes holy and to be maintained because it is a first marriage? Do be careful, though. It makes it too easy to say, "God never meant for us to be married" when trouble comes.
_____________________________
http://car2ner.imagekind.com
"May your days be long and your hardships few".
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 9/7/2010 6:22:53 PM
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Faithfilled4life
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quote:
What does it take to gain God's "seal of approval?"
It's not something you "gain". God knows what's best for us and who is best for us, not based on "our" criteria but based on His. But in our flesh, sometimes we want what we want and therefore do what we want. Does God then say,"Well, since they went ahead and got married to such and such, even though I gave them signs that this was wrong, or they didn't consult me at all, I'll just bless this union anyway and consider it a covenant."
We aren't all meant for just anyone, but rather someone. Just because two people are christian doesn't even mean they are right for one another. It's ultimately about God's kingdom and being able to be used by Him to reach the lost. He already knows that sister Susie isn't right for brother Jim and vice verse because each would make the path He has for the other more difficult, wrought with more detours, wrong turns and backtracks than necessary. And that's not to say that a couple who are joined together by God won't face some of the same, because they will. But to know that He is the link that joined you together and holds you both in place, is priceless.
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 9/7/2010 11:35:06 PM
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RYNODOG
Posts: 664
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quote:
I do find it interesting that if it is a first marriage, even if God told the couple not to marry, and they did anyway that now somehow it has become a blessed union to be held onto until death.
So this disobedience to God, which is sin, becomes holy and to be maintained because it is a first marriage? Do be careful, though. It makes it too easy to say, "God never meant for us to be married" when trouble comes.
Hey Car2ner,
What would be an example of God telling two people who have never been married before to not marry each other?
I do find your first comment true when Jesus says that to divorce someone and marry another is adulltery. It seems many say that this adultery magically turns into something holy and blessed and to end it would be a sin although they promote ending other forms of adultery..
Luke 16:18
18Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.
Bryan
LOVE SO AMAZING
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 9/7/2010 11:55:55 PM
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RYNODOG
Posts: 664
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quote:
quote:
What does it take to gain God's "seal of approval?"
It's not something you "gain". God knows what's best for us and who is best for us, not based on "our" criteria but based on His. But in our flesh, sometimes we want what we want and therefore do what we want. Does God then say,"Well, since they went ahead and got married to such and such, even though I gave them signs that this was wrong, or they didn't consult me at all, I'll just bless this union anyway and consider it a covenant."
We aren't all meant for just anyone, but rather someone. Just because two people are christian doesn't even mean they are right for one another. It's ultimately about God's kingdom and being able to be used by Him to reach the lost. He already knows that sister Susie isn't right for brother Jim and vice verse because each would make the path He has for the other more difficult, wrought with more detours, wrong turns and backtracks than necessary. And that's not to say that a couple who are joined together by God won't face some of the same, because they will. But to know that He is the link that joined you together and holds you both in place, is priceless.
hELLO FAITHFILLED4LIFE,
I am trying to understand a bit more about what you are saying. Are you saying that marriage is under no natural law? Or that there are some who are exempt from it? Are you saying that anyone who hasn't prayed sufficiently and received the necessary signs from God that their marriage was His will are really not married and therefore committing fornication? What are these signs and how does one know if they have prayed sufficiently? What if one thinks they have sufficient signs what signs show that the signs are sufficient?
Bryan
LOVE SO AMAZING
< Message edited by RYNODOG -- 9/8/2010 9:46:41 AM >
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 9/8/2010 10:36:02 AM
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hnt
Posts: 580
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quote:
I find it appalling that the divorce rate for Christians is the same as non-Christians. Is it because couples look at their vows as "suggestions" rather than their commitment to the Lord and each other?
What I find strange about such comments is we never look to see how the fold is handling the martial conflict. We also don't stop to view if 'both' are attempting true reconciliation for the relationship. We assume bad things right away without looking deeper.
Its quite amazing that Christians are told how grace is a key cornerstone of the faith, and yet they go out of their way to be 'appalled' and accusatory.
If we handle all things in life with such simplistic and negative viewpoints? Is it any wonder WHY the divorce rates are what they are?
I mean we can't truly help if we don't 'get it' ourselves.
_____________________________
Emotional abuse and Faith
My Mother's Journey with Dementia
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 9/8/2010 3:54:10 PM
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RYNODOG
Posts: 664
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quote:
quote:
I find it appalling that the divorce rate for Christians is the same as non-Christians. Is it because couples look at their vows as "suggestions" rather than their commitment to the Lord and each other?
quote:
What I find strange about such comments is we never look to see how the fold is handling the martial conflict. We also don't stop to view if 'both' are attempting true reconciliation for the relationship. We assume bad things right away without looking deeper.
Hello hnt, good point that we sometimes fail to look deeply into the situation and instead rush to judge.
quote:
Its quite amazing that Christians are told how grace is a key cornerstone of the faith, and yet they go out of their way to be 'appalled' and accusatory.
I wouldn't judge that she "went out of her way to be appalled." I am saddened, appalled, angry... that professing Christians divorce at the same rate as non-Christians. It certainly provides a great opportunity for athiests to scoff at professing Christians when they stand up against homosexual marriage. Check out the athiest websites, they pounce on the hypocricy like a cat pounces on a mouse. Compare the divorce rate and the stability of the family between Muslims and professing Christians.
Divorce can be child abuse. It can also, when children are endangered, be child-loving. It just doesn't separate that which God joined together. If it did then Christ wouldn't call that next marriage "adultery."
quote:
If we handle all things in life with such simplistic and negative viewpoints? Is it any wonder WHY the divorce rates are what they are?
It is certainly not "simplistic and negative" to hate that which is evil. Divorce (claiming that the one flesh covenant bond which God joined) is evil. It is truly loving, truly charitable to hate this evil. One of the devils primary offenses against marriage is divorce. We can unify against him to defend marriage, however we cannot continue to rationalize one divorce after another. We cannot continue to think we are being compassionate, even Christ-like, by encouraging a divorced spouse to close the door to reconcilation (upon true repentance) to their spouse and move on. God will never do that to us. For divorce spreads, it truly is a plague from the devil.
quote:
I mean we can't truly help if we don't 'get it' ourselves.
Amen!!!
Bryan
LOVE SO AMAZING
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 9/9/2010 6:27:08 PM
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Faithfilled4life
Posts: 10
Joined: 9/5/2009
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RYNODOG
quote:
quote:
What does it take to gain God's "seal of approval?"
It's not something you "gain". God knows what's best for us and who is best for us, not based on "our" criteria but based on His. But in our flesh, sometimes we want what we want and therefore do what we want. Does God then say,"Well, since they went ahead and got married to such and such, even though I gave them signs that this was wrong, or they didn't consult me at all, I'll just bless this union anyway and consider it a covenant."
We aren't all meant for just anyone, but rather someone. Just because two people are christian doesn't even mean they are right for one another. It's ultimately about God's kingdom and being able to be used by Him to reach the lost. He already knows that sister Susie isn't right for brother Jim and vice verse because each would make the path He has for the other more difficult, wrought with more detours, wrong turns and backtracks than necessary. And that's not to say that a couple who are joined together by God won't face some of the same, because they will. But to know that He is the link that joined you together and holds you both in place, is priceless.
hELLO FAITHFILLED4LIFE,
I am trying to understand a bit more about what you are saying. Are you saying that marriage is under no natural law? Or that there are some who are exempt from it? Are you saying that anyone who hasn't prayed sufficiently and received the necessary signs from God that their marriage was His will are really not married and therefore committing fornication? What are these signs and how does one know if they have prayed sufficiently? What if one thinks they have sufficient signs what signs show that the signs are sufficient?
Bryan
LOVE SO AMAZING
I'm really just posing the question. God is the creator of marriage, we are suppose to seek Him in all that we do, especially in choosing a mate. Eve was designed, created for Adam. Why wouldn't that still apply today? Not quite that literally, but still..............
I don't think getting an answer from God concerning who to marry is any different than hearing Him about anything else. How many people see red flags in the dating process, and still, for whatever reason, marry that person? This is one of those of those times when it's easy to be blinded by what we want to see. How many people ignore God's "warning signs" because this is who they want to marry or they just want to get married?
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 9/9/2010 10:14:26 PM
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RYNODOG
Posts: 664
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quote:
I don't think getting an answer from God concerning who to marry is any different than hearing Him about anything else. How many people see red flags in the dating process, and still, for whatever reason, marry that person? This is one of those of those times when it's easy to be blinded by what we want to see. How many people ignore God's "warning signs" because this is who they want to marry or they just want to get married?
Hey Faithfilled,
I do not think in the abstract very well. Please give me an example. If a husband and wife are to help each other reach heaven, could the devil also be at work trying to keep two people from marrying one another? If so, could these "signs" also be coming from him? Again, maybe an example will help me understand what you are getting at..
Bryan
LOVE SO AMAZING
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 9/10/2010 10:09:37 AM
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car2nist
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How many times in the old testament have the Israelites been told not to marry foreign women but did anyhow? And there have been times God told the men to leave those women behind.
_____________________________
http://car2ner.imagekind.com
"May your days be long and your hardships few".
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 9/24/2010 2:57:49 AM
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chuckels
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The Hebrew men were hard hearted toward their wives. To "put away" a wife was to send her out on her own... and she was still the property of the man.
This is what God hated.
If we don't understand the cultural differences of the Jews 2-3000 years ago and American culture today we will certainly not understand what the scripture is saying about divorce as opposed to putting away a wife.
Mal 2 does not say that God hates divorce, but rather it says that God hated putting away.
The requirement for a divorcement was and is actually a function of God's justice on behalf of the woman.
Also... all our bible translations confuse the two very different things... putting away and divorce. It is very unfortunate and has put the church in the position of shooting our wounded.
_____________________________
A dog thinks that it's master exists for the dog's benefit and enjoyment... when in fact the dog exists for the master's benefit and enjoyment...
May we have more sense than a dog.
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 9/24/2010 10:32:08 AM
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hnt
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I have to admit years ago when I was youth I heard all the bickering about the passage in Mal about Divorce. I'm sure I had read it prior, but anyway......
That passage says so much more than just the 'God hates Divorce' that most people take from it. I agree with the 'putting away' by the the way. That isn't what is presented nor what the entire chapter is truly about anyway. What is even stranger is there is a comma in that sentence, and they never felt the need to finish it.
The principal I also took from that chapter was attitude. You can't have a sinful attitude towards your life and others .... and then go to worship and expect your offerings to be accepted by the Lord.
Playing some 'holy' role in your place of worship is intolerable in the eyes of God. You are to live the life that he has commanded you to, and don't you dare come to the place of worship and play Mr. Follower of the Faith when you don't live it.
It reminds me of other stories in the bible - esply when the Pharisees were told they add all these burdens to people's live - and never help to lighten them. They need to be placed at the 'best' spot for meals, and a place of honor in all circumstances. They wish to make the rules by adding to scripture, and yet not live out the life that God has asked them to.
This chapter shows the ignorance of these men, and sadly you still see that attitude today. I won't live my life with the proper attitude that God would have me do, but instead go around looking holy and remind and judge all those around me. I won't treat my family as the treasured asset that God has given me, and remember they are also children of God. I will go to my place of worship, and make a big deal of that worship for all to see .... and yet get 'confused' when God reminds them they are basically two faced and their attitude is unacceptable. That God won't play into the lies, and don't play DUMB as to why I won't accept your offerings.
Part of that nasty and unholy attitude is they trade in their spouses, and children for newer models. In the OT there are provisions for those wives that you either reject, or when you add to your family by taking on additional wife. It seems they were also ignoring that. They treated their families with a hard heart, and an attitude that isn't what God would wish. They abused the powerless, and had no mercy for them. Yet wanted God to honor their offerings. They had a human attitude, and basically asked God to model it. To show to the world HOW they were righteous, and God basically said I don't THINK so! I have to wonder how humiliating that was for them at the time.
I wish today we heard more about THAT portion of Mal instead of the 1/2 sentence they use, and don't bother including the rest. We completely miss the point!
_____________________________
Emotional abuse and Faith
My Mother's Journey with Dementia
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/28/2010 5:01:20 AM
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jamie1995
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well, there is alot to say. Christians are very strict when it comes to marriage. There is a simple way to remember how Christians start there relationship and marriage.
L - love one and other
O - Obediance to God
V - Vows to one and other in the presence of God
E - Extend the family
Divorce can be very hard in christian marriage. Some Christians can be divorced only if they havent had sex during. But still adultery is very serious because it is against one of the ten commandments, " I shall not commit adultery." Usually marriage support can be offered. But hopefully divorce shall not be met in a marriage, The marriage is very sacred and Divorce is wrong because you made a promise to God and your breakin it to him - not only your partner!
If anyone has any issues, Email me at kooljimbo@hotmail.co.uk or inbox me. I am here to listen and to help :)
_____________________________
^.Jamie Uttley - Love In God, Believe In Yourself.^
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/30/2010 2:20:52 AM
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cure4divorce
Posts: 571
Joined: 12/17/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: hnt
I have to admit years ago when I was youth I heard all the bickering about the passage in Mal about Divorce. I'm sure I had read it prior, but anyway......
That passage says so much more than just the 'God hates Divorce' that most people take from it. I agree with the 'putting away' by the the way. That isn't what is presented nor what the entire chapter is truly about anyway. What is even stranger is there is a comma in that sentence, and they never felt the need to finish it.
The principal I also took from that chapter was attitude. You can't have a sinful attitude towards your life and others .... and then go to worship and expect your offerings to be accepted by the Lord.
Playing some 'holy' role in your place of worship is intolerable in the eyes of God. You are to live the life that he has commanded you to, and don't you dare come to the place of worship and play Mr. Follower of the Faith when you don't live it.
It reminds me of other stories in the bible - esply when the Pharisees were told they add all these burdens to people's live - and never help to lighten them. They need to be placed at the 'best' spot for meals, and a place of honor in all circumstances. They wish to make the rules by adding to scripture, and yet not live out the life that God has asked them to.
This chapter shows the ignorance of these men, and sadly you still see that attitude today. I won't live my life with the proper attitude that God would have me do, but instead go around looking holy and remind and judge all those around me. I won't treat my family as the treasured asset that God has given me, and remember they are also children of God. I will go to my place of worship, and make a big deal of that worship for all to see .... and yet get 'confused' when God reminds them they are basically two faced and their attitude is unacceptable. That God won't play into the lies, and don't play DUMB as to why I won't accept your offerings.
Part of that nasty and unholy attitude is they trade in their spouses, and children for newer models. In the OT there are provisions for those wives that you either reject, or when you add to your family by taking on additional wife. It seems they were also ignoring that. They treated their families with a hard heart, and an attitude that isn't what God would wish. They abused the powerless, and had no mercy for them. Yet wanted God to honor their offerings. They had a human attitude, and basically asked God to model it. To show to the world HOW they were righteous, and God basically said I don't THINK so! I have to wonder how humiliating that was for them at the time.
I wish today we heard more about THAT portion of Mal instead of the 1/2 sentence they use, and don't bother including the rest. We completely miss the point!
A marriage covenant is not abolished until it is done according to God's guidelines in Scripture, otherwise if you marry again you will be committing adultery against your former spouse if you marry another Matt. 5:32, 19:9, Mark 10:11-12 and Luke 16:18. According to the Law of Moses, only a man is allowed to put away his wife for “sexual immorality” Deut. 24:1. A woman is not allowed, by Scripture, to divorce her husband for any reason (being under the “rule” of her husband from Gen. 3:16) nor is she allowed to marry a additonal husband (at the same time Rom 7:2-6).
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/30/2010 8:32:01 AM
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gmcspice
Posts: 1345
Joined: 12/26/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cure4divorce
quote:
ORIGINAL: hnt
I have to admit years ago when I was youth I heard all the bickering about the passage in Mal about Divorce. I'm sure I had read it prior, but anyway......
That passage says so much more than just the 'God hates Divorce' that most people take from it. I agree with the 'putting away' by the the way. That isn't what is presented nor what the entire chapter is truly about anyway. What is even stranger is there is a comma in that sentence, and they never felt the need to finish it.
The principal I also took from that chapter was attitude. You can't have a sinful attitude towards your life and others .... and then go to worship and expect your offerings to be accepted by the Lord.
Playing some 'holy' role in your place of worship is intolerable in the eyes of God. You are to live the life that he has commanded you to, and don't you dare come to the place of worship and play Mr. Follower of the Faith when you don't live it.
It reminds me of other stories in the bible - esply when the Pharisees were told they add all these burdens to people's live - and never help to lighten them. They need to be placed at the 'best' spot for meals, and a place of honor in all circumstances. They wish to make the rules by adding to scripture, and yet not live out the life that God has asked them to.
This chapter shows the ignorance of these men, and sadly you still see that attitude today. I won't live my life with the proper attitude that God would have me do, but instead go around looking holy and remind and judge all those around me. I won't treat my family as the treasured asset that God has given me, and remember they are also children of God. I will go to my place of worship, and make a big deal of that worship for all to see .... and yet get 'confused' when God reminds them they are basically two faced and their attitude is unacceptable. That God won't play into the lies, and don't play DUMB as to why I won't accept your offerings.
Part of that nasty and unholy attitude is they trade in their spouses, and children for newer models. In the OT there are provisions for those wives that you either reject, or when you add to your family by taking on additional wife. It seems they were also ignoring that. They treated their families with a hard heart, and an attitude that isn't what God would wish. They abused the powerless, and had no mercy for them. Yet wanted God to honor their offerings. They had a human attitude, and basically asked God to model it. To show to the world HOW they were righteous, and God basically said I don't THINK so! I have to wonder how humiliating that was for them at the time.
I wish today we heard more about THAT portion of Mal instead of the 1/2 sentence they use, and don't bother including the rest. We completely miss the point!
A marriage covenant is not abolished until it is done according to God's guidelines in Scripture, otherwise if you marry again you will be committing adultery against your former spouse if you marry another Matt. 5:32, 19:9, Mark 10:11-12 and Luke 16:18. According to the Law of Moses, only a man is allowed to put away his wife for “sexual immorality” Deut. 24:1. A woman is not allowed, by Scripture, to divorce her husband for any reason (being under the “rule” of her husband from Gen. 3:16) nor is she allowed to marry a additonal husband (at the same time Rom 7:2-6).
First of all why do people constantly misquote Genesis 3:16? It says that a woman shall desire her husband and because of that he will rule over her. Women are no longer under the curse of Genesis 3:16 since Jesus died on the cross for the sins of the world. Jesus said it was finished (that part) so it is finished.
So, Genesis 3:16 has been covered by the blood of Christ. Either people can believe in the Power of Christ to take away sin or not.
But let us remember that if we do not forgive then we will not be forgiven. And we should not judge a person by their past or hold it against them because it all is under the blood and does not exist anymore.
Anyway, I believe that women these days CAN divorce their husbands if they have committed adultery, abandonement or severe abuse.
What most people don't understand is Jesus said through Paul for a man to love his wife the same way Christ loved the church and gave his life for her. Do men generally do this? Not these days.
Paul also says that husband and wife should submit to one another.
Why is there even the argument of things like this when Christ said he took care of it ALL. Why do we like to take a person's past and throw it back into their face, when our God says they have been forgiven? It just does not make sense to even question the fact that God has forgiven these people who have committed divorce under what ever circumstances but his BRIDE, the CHURCH won't. What is wrong with that picture?
By the way, I am not trying to sound hostile or anything, just trying to figure out why some of us just can't believe God would forgive those who had divorced and what ever other sin they committed.
We seem to sometimes forget to love God first then love our neighbor. When we hear or see they have been divorced some tend to just throw the person away. That is NOT what Christ would ever do though.
_____________________________
To have friends, you have to be a friend!
gmcspice4GOD
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 11/3/2010 2:24:45 PM
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OverstuffedChair
Posts: 113
Joined: 3/14/2010
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gmcspice
First of all why do people constantly misquote Genesis 3:16? It says that a woman shall desire her husband and because of that he will rule over her. Women are no longer under the curse of Genesis 3:16 since Jesus died on the cross for the sins of the world. Jesus said it was finished (that part) so it is finished.
So, Genesis 3:16 has been covered by the blood of Christ. Either people can believe in the Power of Christ to take away sin or not.
But let us remember that if we do not forgive then we will not be forgiven. And we should not judge a person by their past or hold it against them because it all is under the blood and does not exist anymore.
Anyway, I believe that women these days CAN divorce their husbands if they have committed adultery, abandonement or severe abuse.
What most people don't understand is Jesus said through Paul for a man to love his wife the same way Christ loved the church and gave his life for her. Do men generally do this? Not these days.
Paul also says that husband and wife should submit to one another.
Why is there even the argument of things like this when Christ said he took care of it ALL. Why do we like to take a person's past and throw it back into their face, when our God says they have been forgiven? It just does not make sense to even question the fact that God has forgiven these people who have committed divorce under what ever circumstances but his BRIDE, the CHURCH won't. What is wrong with that picture?
By the way, I am not trying to sound hostile or anything, just trying to figure out why some of us just can't believe God would forgive those who had divorced and what ever other sin they committed.
We seem to sometimes forget to love God first then love our neighbor. When we hear or see they have been divorced some tend to just throw the person away. That is NOT what Christ would ever do though.
If you ask me personally, I think it's because Evangelical Christians have made marriage into an idol.
Whom else pontificates on it so much in magazines and blogs? Whom else goes on about it as if it's the Holy Grail? But I've yet to hear about it from foreign Christians...
Marriage is good, but not when people start delving into old heresies to justify some gender roles or acting unChristian just because someone didn't stay in a marriage. Then that to me smells like it reached idol status.
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 11/3/2010 5:04:53 PM
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hnt
Posts: 580
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cure4divorce
quote:
ORIGINAL: hnt
I have to admit years ago when I was youth I heard all the bickering about the passage in Mal about Divorce. I'm sure I had read it prior, but anyway......
That passage says so much more than just the 'God hates Divorce' that most people take from it. I agree with the 'putting away' by the the way. That isn't what is presented nor what the entire chapter is truly about anyway. What is even stranger is there is a comma in that sentence, and they never felt the need to finish it.
The principal I also took from that chapter was attitude. You can't have a sinful attitude towards your life and others .... and then go to worship and expect your offerings to be accepted by the Lord.
Playing some 'holy' role in your place of worship is intolerable in the eyes of God. You are to live the life that he has commanded you to, and don't you dare come to the place of worship and play Mr. Follower of the Faith when you don't live it.
It reminds me of other stories in the bible - esply when the Pharisees were told they add all these burdens to people's live - and never help to lighten them. They need to be placed at the 'best' spot for meals, and a place of honor in all circumstances. They wish to make the rules by adding to scripture, and yet not live out the life that God has asked them to.
This chapter shows the ignorance of these men, and sadly you still see that attitude today. I won't live my life with the proper attitude that God would have me do, but instead go around looking holy and remind and judge all those around me. I won't treat my family as the treasured asset that God has given me, and remember they are also children of God. I will go to my place of worship, and make a big deal of that worship for all to see .... and yet get 'confused' when God reminds them they are basically two faced and their attitude is unacceptable. That God won't play into the lies, and don't play DUMB as to why I won't accept your offerings.
Part of that nasty and unholy attitude is they trade in their spouses, and children for newer models. In the OT there are provisions for those wives that you either reject, or when you add to your family by taking on additional wife. It seems they were also ignoring that. They treated their families with a hard heart, and an attitude that isn't what God would wish. They abused the powerless, and had no mercy for them. Yet wanted God to honor their offerings. They had a human attitude, and basically asked God to model it. To show to the world HOW they were righteous, and God basically said I don't THINK so! I have to wonder how humiliating that was for them at the time.
I wish today we heard more about THAT portion of Mal instead of the 1/2 sentence they use, and don't bother including the rest. We completely miss the point!
A marriage covenant is not abolished until it is done according to God's guidelines in Scripture, otherwise if you marry again you will be committing adultery against your former spouse if you marry another Matt. 5:32, 19:9, Mark 10:11-12 and Luke 16:18. According to the Law of Moses, only a man is allowed to put away his wife for “sexual immorality” Deut. 24:1. A woman is not allowed, by Scripture, to divorce her husband for any reason (being under the “rule” of her husband from Gen. 3:16) nor is she allowed to marry a additonal husband (at the same time Rom 7:2-6).
Actually, those scriptures were speaking of 'putting away' without 'get' in Jewish terms. The bible speaks of hard hearted that 'put away' their wifes, and refused the 'get' which is the divorce. She wasn't allowed to remarry without the 'get', and neither was he.
Rabbi's could go to the husband on women's behalf to 'request' a get from him. In the cases that he refused to do so? They tended to make his life rather miserable.
If we ignore the Jewish customs at the time? When they were speaking about such things? We tend to lose the entire point.
There is a difference between 'putting away' and 'divorce' within the Jewish community, and there still is a difference.
_____________________________
Emotional abuse and Faith
My Mother's Journey with Dementia
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 11/9/2010 12:12:30 PM
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seaglass52
Posts: 77
Joined: 9/5/2010
Status: offline
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who really knows? i see posts with bits and pieces of OT law......bits and pieces of a NT scripture....people saying Christians gleefully run to the lawyer so they can joyfully divorce and do their own thing, which is ridiculous, no sincere Christian does that......people saying abused spouses should NEVER divorce....evidentally they think someone is supposed to remain forever tied to someone who is acting like an animal.....we all can read Scripture, pray and try to figure out what God wants in this situation.....its all we can do. I doubt any of us fully understands it all. I dont, and i speak as a divorced Christian........bad things happen and He is merciful.....I do not believe a person has to live forever with an abusive cold spouse who ruins their kids and demolishes their mate in every way possible....emotionally, financially and maybe even physically. .......there are some good books that can help you as you attempt to figure all this out.....ask at the Christian bookstore...No Christian is ever FOR divorce...its sometimes necessary......
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