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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/13/2010 9:38:43 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2408
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Showmethetruth
quote:
ORIGINAL: gmcspice
I did not say a person could not live without a spouse. I have always said it is a choice. You condemn the choice. I don't have any power to condemn, but I believe the bible does. Murder is a choice, fornication is a choice, etc. Any sin we commit is a choice. Some of those choices are condemned in the bible.quote:
Nope, he sure didn't. BUT He did so that we could have a second chance and forgiveness A second chance and forgiveness so we could be with Him, yes.quote:
I never said people could divorce for any reason. You just did.
So, NO, I am not disagreeing with the text. Can Mary be forgiven if she does marry again? Yes. does the bible say to divorce to get that forgiveness, no it does not. But YOU say it does. The point is you tell people it is OK to go ahead and commit the sin (in advance) because we will be forgiven anyway.
quote:
Actually to show repentance, the person would stay as they are and make that marriage work. So is there any other time we can say, after we realize something is a sin, "I'm sorry, God. I didn't realize this was wrong. I'm not going to change anything, but please forgive me."
Greetings
quote:
Murder is a choice, fornication is a choice, etc. Any sin we commit is a choice.
Some of those choices are condemned in the bible
Actually ALL sin is condemned as it realtes to the flesh.
Rom 8:3
quote:
after we realize something is a sin,
After we realize something WAS a sin it’s already been committed = before that realization,
Therefore there is nothing we can do apart from Christ to fix it.
Here is what the Bible teaches us Christians. (Those who are saved by FAITH)
And it is very simple and easy to understand as it written in the word of God
Jud 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present [you] faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
The word of God shows us that Christ works through our temptations, and that example is seen clearly here when Jesus stood in between satan and Peter there in Mat 16:23
But he turned, and said unto Peter; Get thee behind me, Satan:
Therefore ....this is picture of the “working” of the Holy Spirit of God ....and it is written and defined is again given by inspiration vey simply.... in the first part of
= Jud 1:24 Now unto “him (= Jesus Christ)....that is able to ....”Keep you “from” falling,”
Now.... by same the word of God... which “always teaches”... the FULL Counsel = the other part
It is written in Jude1:24
“And “
=to present [you] faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
What the “and” means there....
is in addition....
Therefore
In addition to being able to KEEP us from falling ... He (= Jesus Christ)... is also able “to present you/us faultless!” = after we SIN.
What that means (faultless!” in reiteration =(to present you faultless)
by the same word of God...... That means ....“after”... we sin....
or are found “at fault” = obliviously
=“to present [you] faultless!”
So He Jesus Christ... is both able to keep us from falling..... And if we do sin He is able to present FAULTLESS... before the presence of his glory (= God the Father).... with exceeding joy.
..... (Because we; the born again; have already called on His name to save us)
quote:
So is there any other time we can say, after we realize something is a sin, "I'm sorry, God. I didn't realize this was wrong. I'm not going to change anything, but please forgive me."
Absolutely... That’s called the Gospel.
quote:
I'm not going to change anything?
Absolutely, if we were able to.... then we would need a savior,
but the truth is.... We can’t change a thing after it’s been committed,
....hasn’t on ever read the OT?
John reiterates the same =(after it’s been committed)
1Jo 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.
And 
If.. any man sin,
“we have”.... an advocate with the Father,
Jesus Christ the righteous :
Full Counsel
LG
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/13/2010 10:34:56 PM
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gmcspice
Posts: 1345
Joined: 12/26/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LoyalGypsy
quote:
ORIGINAL: Showmethetruth
quote:
ORIGINAL: gmcspice
I did not say a person could not live without a spouse. I have always said it is a choice. You condemn the choice. I don't have any power to condemn, but I believe the bible does. Murder is a choice, fornication is a choice, etc. Any sin we commit is a choice. Some of those choices are condemned in the bible.quote:
Nope, he sure didn't. BUT He did so that we could have a second chance and forgiveness A second chance and forgiveness so we could be with Him, yes.quote:
I never said people could divorce for any reason. You just did.
So, NO, I am not disagreeing with the text. Can Mary be forgiven if she does marry again? Yes. does the bible say to divorce to get that forgiveness, no it does not. But YOU say it does. The point is you tell people it is OK to go ahead and commit the sin (in advance) because we will be forgiven anyway.
quote:
Actually to show repentance, the person would stay as they are and make that marriage work. So is there any other time we can say, after we realize something is a sin, "I'm sorry, God. I didn't realize this was wrong. I'm not going to change anything, but please forgive me."
Greetings
quote:
Murder is a choice, fornication is a choice, etc. Any sin we commit is a choice.
Some of those choices are condemned in the bible
Actually ALL sin is condemned as it realtes to the flesh.
Rom 8:3
quote:
after we realize something is a sin,
After we realize something WAS a sin it’s already been committed = before that realization,
Therefore there is nothing we can do apart from Christ to fix it.
Here is what the Bible teaches us Christians. (Those who are saved by FAITH)
And it is very simple and easy to understand as it written in the word of God
Jud 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present [you] faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
The word of God shows us that Christ works through our temptations, and that example is seen clearly here when Jesus stood in between satan and Peter there in Mat 16:23
But he turned, and said unto Peter; Get thee behind me, Satan:
Therefore ....this is picture of the “working” of the Holy Spirit of God ....and it is written and defined is again given by inspiration vey simply.... in the first part of
= Jud 1:24 Now unto “him (= Jesus Christ)....that is able to ....”Keep you “from” falling,”
Now.... by same the word of God... which “always teaches”... the FULL Counsel = the other part
It is written in Jude1:24
“And “
=to present [you] faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
What the “and” means there....
is in addition....
Therefore
In addition to being able to KEEP us from falling ... He (= Jesus Christ)... is also able “to present you/us faultless!” = after we SIN.
What that means (faultless!” in reiteration =(to present you faultless)
by the same word of God...... That means ....“after”... we sin....
or are found “at fault” = obliviously
=“to present [you] faultless!”
So He Jesus Christ... is both able to keep us from falling..... And if we do sin He is able to present FAULTLESS... before the presence of his glory (= God the Father).... with exceeding joy.
..... (Because we; the born again; have already called on His name to save us)
quote:
So is there any other time we can say, after we realize something is a sin, "I'm sorry, God. I didn't realize this was wrong. I'm not going to change anything, but please forgive me."
Absolutely... That’s called the Gospel.
quote:
I'm not going to change anything?
Absolutely, if we were able to.... then we would need a savior,
but the truth is.... We can’t change a thing after it’s been committed,
....hasn’t on ever read the OT?
John reiterates the same =(after it’s been committed)
1Jo 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.
And
If.. any man sin,
“we have”.... an advocate with the Father,
Jesus Christ the righteous :
Full Counsel
LG
As usual LG, you beat me to the punch. Exactly what I was going to say in response to what Show posted against me.
Why is it they don't realize the truth? That once sin is committed it is finished. It is death unless we repent and ask for forgivenss with our heart and not commit the sin again.
Once it is done, there is nothing we can do outside of Christ to change what is already done.
Yet they still say a person who is married again HAS to divorce to show repentance. It just does not make sense to me. How can you cover a sin with another sin?
You can't. It must be covered by the blood of Christ and never repeated again. That means to not divorce again.
Why don't they see?
_____________________________
To have friends, you have to be a friend!
gmcspice4GOD
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/14/2010 6:54:16 AM
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car2nist
Posts: 3500
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: the other side of the computer screen
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I've heard them say that a 2nd or 3rd marriage isn't really a marriage so it's not really a divorce.
It's still a breakdown of a relationship. It is still a breakdown of a family. Somehow they still don't see it as sinful.
_____________________________
http://car2ner.imagekind.com
"May your days be long and your hardships few".
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/14/2010 10:41:28 AM
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Cathie33
Posts: 7
Joined: 8/14/2010
Status: offline
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i dont know what the answer is as ive spent many years trying to work it out myself. After much prayer and bible reading and talking to different people all of who give different responses just like here. I am still unsure.
After my husband left me i fell away from my faith in god and started seeing other people. then i found my faith again. I struggled with knowing if i should break up with my boyfriend at that time and stay single. I even tried to break up with him but at the same time found out i was pregnant. He insisted on getting married. I felt wrong in leaving him, and i felt wrong in remarrying too. I felt trapped for a long time. We did get married and 5 years later we are still married
I dont know if it was the right choice or not. But i do know that the holy spirit did not leave me when we married and to this day is still with me strong as ever. My faith in God is very important to me. God has not deserted me for my choice. I am not saying this means it is ok to remarry,but i think god has forgiven me for my mistakes. I follow God to the best of my ability. I do know divorce causes much pain and suffering to everyone. It is best avoided at all costs.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/14/2010 3:06:18 PM
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Kath
Posts: 16209
Status: offline
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ADMIN'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
To everyone,
The purpose of this thread is to dicuss the TOPIC of divorce.
It is NOT for the purpose of discussing YOUR divorce or situation.
We have found that people who post with statements like, "so because I divorced my spouse I am now forever a sinner and never to be forgiven?" are opening themselves up to being hurt or hurting someone else.
If you are not able to participate in this topic without discussing the experience of YOUR divorce or situation then we must request that you stay out of the thread.
Posts which ignore this warning will be removed without warning and may result in other action in accordance with the Terms of Service.
Thank you for your attention, understanding, and cooperation.
Please do not reply to this message within the Community.
Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns.
Please do not send me PMs regarding this message.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/15/2010 2:15:48 AM
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cure4divorce
Posts: 571
Joined: 12/17/2008
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The word for covenant basically means... “a solemn covenant guaranteeing promises or obligations undertaken by one or both parties, sealed with an oath”.
Paul R. Williamson, sealed with an oath; Covenant in God's unfolding Purpose, New Studies in Biblical Theology C. Downers Grove, IL; IVP Academic, 2007), 45.
Two becoming one
Two people make a covenant in marriage to the other “for life”. As we say in our marriage ceremony “till death do us part!” God says they are no longer two but one, “Therefore what God joined together…” Matt 19:6 (Heb 13:4). Although becoming one flesh was meant for only for marriage (showing one flesh outside of marriage 1 Cor 6:15-19) it will also take a commitment, by covenant, to establish the marriage (“your wife by Covenant” Mal 2:14-16).
The marriage covenant was designed to go under the general rule that the two being one flesh will be sexually faithful to the other (Hos 3:3).
The Covenant that Abraham in Gen 15:10a said God requested the animals “cut them in two” as a sign when the smoking furnace and burning lamp went between them. Since God said that life is in the blood we know that this covenant had great weight associated with it... “life-and-death bond”.
See O. Palmer Robertson, Christ of the Covenants (Phillipstorg, NJ: P&R, 1980), 4.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/15/2010 8:01:31 PM
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RYNODOG
Posts: 664
Joined: 3/15/2010
Status: offline
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quote:
I've heard them say that a 2nd or 3rd marriage isn't really a marriage so it's not really a divorce.
It's still a breakdown of a relationship. It is still a breakdown of a family. Somehow they still don't see it as sinful.
Hey car2ner,
If a relationship is adultery then it is not a sin to end the adulterous relationship.
Paul tells us that adulterers will not inherit eternal life. So, when Christ tells us that to divorce your spouse and marry another is adultery...
Mark 10:11-12 (King James Version)
11And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.
12And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.
And Paul tells us...
1 Corinthians 6:9 (King James Version)
9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
then it is most certainly not sinful to end whatever relationships Jesus and Paul are talking about. If it is done out of obedience to our Lord then it is most certainly love.
If there are children in the second relationship then it does become extremely difficult. Were there children from the first marriage (the one flesh covenant marriage?) Is there a one flesh covenant spouse still remaining faithful with a forgiveness that is open to reconciliation upon true repentance (knowing he/she will be forgiven likewise)? If the answer to those two questions is no... is it possible to live as brother and sister in the same home until the children are raised? Is this possible without causing scandal?
I am sorry to go back to this so much but I think of the early Christians and some living in the not-so-cushy parts of the world right now. What about their children as they lose their lives out of love of Christ? We can rationalize staying in an adulterous relationship and they could rationalize disowning Christ, denying our Lord. Somehow many have created a God that is just fine with this... because the God we have created looks like us.
Bryan
LOVE SO AMAZING
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/16/2010 7:58:17 AM
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gmcspice
Posts: 1345
Joined: 12/26/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RYNODOG
quote:
I've heard them say that a 2nd or 3rd marriage isn't really a marriage so it's not really a divorce.
It's still a breakdown of a relationship. It is still a breakdown of a family. Somehow they still don't see it as sinful.
Hey car2ner,
If a relationship is adultery then it is not a sin to end the adulterous relationship.
Paul tells us that adulterers will not inherit eternal life. So, when Christ tells us that to divorce your spouse and marry another is adultery...
Mark 10:11-12 (King James Version)
11And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.
12And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.
And Paul tells us...
1 Corinthians 6:9 (King James Version)
9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
then it is most certainly not sinful to end whatever relationships Jesus and Paul are talking about. If it is done out of obedience to our Lord then it is most certainly love.
If there are children in the second relationship then it does become extremely difficult. Were there children from the first marriage (the one flesh covenant marriage?) Is there a one flesh covenant spouse still remaining faithful with a forgiveness that is open to reconciliation upon true repentance (knowing he/she will be forgiven likewise)? If the answer to those two questions is no... is it possible to live as brother and sister in the same home until the children are raised? Is this possible without causing scandal?
I am sorry to go back to this so much but I think of the early Christians and some living in the not-so-cushy parts of the world right now. What about their children as they lose their lives out of love of Christ? We can rationalize staying in an adulterous relationship and they could rationalize disowning Christ, denying our Lord. Somehow many have created a God that is just fine with this... because the God we have created looks like us.
Bryan
LOVE SO AMAZING
You are leaving out the except for fornication part, Bryan.
You are leaving out the fact that God will forgive that person if they ask for it and they do not have to divorce to show repentance.
That second marriage is not continuous adultery. No where in scripture does it say that it is. Do you realize that by you saying that it is, you are adding to scripture? That brother, is sin, according to God.
Again, you cannot cover a sin with a sin, Bryan.
Paul tells us also that when we get saved to remain as we are. If we are married(1, 2,3, etc.) to remain in it and ask God to bless it.
God does not tell us at all to divorce that 2nd spouse to show repentance.
Please stop telling people they have to divorce to show repentance. The early church did not teach that. Why else would Paul tell us what he told us in Corinthians?
Marriage is only a covenant marriage when the two become one in Christ. In the spirit because the flesh is not pleasing to God, nor can it be.
The millisecond someone comes to Christ their past sins are washed away, forgotten by God.
What you are saying is that their sin is not forgotten by God.
And that does not line up with scripture.
_____________________________
To have friends, you have to be a friend!
gmcspice4GOD
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/16/2010 9:48:35 AM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2408
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RYNODOG
quote:
I've heard them say that a 2nd or 3rd marriage isn't really a marriage so it's not really a divorce.
It's still a breakdown of a relationship. It is still a breakdown of a family. Somehow they still don't see it as sinful.
Hey car2ner,
If a relationship is adultery then it is not a sin to end the adulterous relationship.
Bryan
LOVE SO AMAZING
Greetings
quote:
If a relationship is adultery then it is not a sin to end the adulterous relationship.
I see one has been studying the prophetic scripture, for a while there I assumed one espoused to attributing Christ as having no righteous right to do that
Remembering God in the likeness of marriage was married to Israel and according to the law one had to die to be released from the law of the husband
So God sent Christ to die and release those from that marriage so they could marry another in Christ,
But the problem with that is..... is the fact that Christ rose again and can no longer die
How then would that be attributed to spiritual adultery?
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed "obey My voice"
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/16/2010 9:50:26 AM
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Rooted
Posts: 24
Joined: 7/16/2010
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gmcspice
You are leaving out the except for fornication part, Bryan. It is quite correct to leave out the fornication part. It applied to the Jewish espoused couples. Adultery (sexual sin between married people) are forgiven by God when people turn away from it and stop doing it. Sin (whether its adultery, abuse, alcohol or whatever) does not dissolve a one flesh marriage, only the physical death of one of the spouses of a one flesh marriage.
You are leaving out the fact that God will forgive that person if they ask for it and they do not have to divorce to show repentance. Merely saying sorry without stopping the sin does not cut it with God. We need to produce fruit in keeping with repentance and must forsake the sin which we repent of.
That second marriage is not continuous adultery. No where in scripture does it say that it is. Jesus (God the Son) says it is continuous adultery.
Do you realize that by you saying that it is, you are adding to scripture? That brother, is sin, according to God.
Again, you cannot cover a sin with a sin, Bryan.
Paul tells us also that when we get saved to remain as we are. No, this is untrue, the Bible tells us to stop stealing, lying, stop homosexuality and whatever other sins we commit.
If we are married(1, 2,3, etc.) to remain in it and ask God to bless it. We cannot ask God to bless what He calls sin.
God does not tell us at all to divorce that 2nd spouse to show repentance.
Please stop telling people they have to divorce to show repentance. The early church did not teach that. Why else would Paul tell us what he told us in Corinthians?
Marriage is only a covenant marriage when the two become one in Christ. In the spirit because the flesh is not pleasing to God, nor can it be. This is incorrect. God creates a one flesh marriage (not a one spirit marriage) when both spouses do not have a living one flesh spouse. And this is not applicable to Christians only. God's creation (from the beginning) marriage law is for all of mankind - whosoever (a man and woman who both enters into a marriage for the first time).
The millisecond someone comes to Christ their past sins are washed away, forgotten by God. If they turn from it (forsake it) and no longer continue in it which is possible through the resurrection power of Jesus Christ which is available to us all.
What you are saying is that their sin is not forgotten by God.
And that does not line up with scripture.
< Message edited by Rooted -- 8/16/2010 10:50:00 AM >
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/16/2010 5:32:08 PM
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RYNODOG
Posts: 664
Joined: 3/15/2010
Status: offline
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Rooted did a great job of exposing each falsehood point by point.
Just a question...
quote:
That second marriage is not continuous adultery.
For those who believe this....
When does the adultery end? We know that it is not at the “marriage” ceremony because Jesus says that anyone who marries another commits adultery. Is the new marriage all of a sudden blessed by God when the two people have sex after the adulterous “marriage?”
gmcspice, again, please see that I am not trying to convince you of anything, in case someone is sincerely seeking I only hope to be used to shine a light on some of these lies. The father of all lies is using them to claim one soul after another. Our current individualized, therapeutisized and moral-relativized culture is so very vulnerable to this attack.
I will respect your request not to address you but I will not let the lies go unchecked. I hate them with a passion. They are turning our Father's house of marriage into a meat-market. It is time we make whips and drive them out.
Bryan
LOVE SO AMAZING
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/16/2010 6:43:13 PM
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gmcspice
Posts: 1345
Joined: 12/26/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Rooted
quote:
ORIGINAL: gmcspice
You are leaving out the except for fornication part, Bryan. It is quite correct to leave out the fornication part. It applied to the Jewish espoused couples. Adultery (sexual sin between married people) are forgiven by God when people turn away from it and stop doing it. Sin (whether its adultery, abuse, alcohol or whatever) does not dissolve a one flesh marriage, only the physical death of one of the spouses of a one flesh marriage.
Again. for the masses. Adultery is only if you are still married to that person. There is no such thing mentioned in the Bible as continuous sin within a marriage.
God recognizes divorce as ENDING a marriage. Whether you like it or not, He does. so it is not continuous adultery.
quote:
You are leaving out the fact that God will forgive that person if they ask for it and they do not have to divorce to show repentance. Merely saying sorry without stopping the sin does not cut it with God. We need to produce fruit in keeping with repentance and must forsake the sin which we repent of.
You cannot cover a sin with a sin!
quote:
That second marriage is not continuous adultery. No where in scripture does it say that it is. Jesus (God the Son) says it is continuous adultery.
Do you realize that by you saying that it is, you are adding to scripture? That brother, is sin, according to God.
Again, you cannot cover a sin with a sin, Bryan.
Paul tells us also that when we get saved to remain as we are. No, this is untrue, the Bible tells us to stop stealing, lying, stop homosexuality and whatever other sins we commit.
You cannot compare being married again to homosexuality. They are two different things.
quote:
If we are married(1, 2,3, etc.) to remain in it and ask God to bless it. We cannot ask God to bless what He calls sin.God does not tell us at all to divorce that 2nd spouse to show repentance.
Please stop telling people they have to divorce to show repentance. The early church did not teach that. Why else would Paul tell us what he told us in Corinthians?
Marriage is only a covenant marriage when the two become one in Christ. In the spirit because the flesh is not pleasing to God, nor can it be. This is incorrect. God creates a one flesh marriage (not a one spirit marriage) when both spouses do not have a living one flesh spouse. And this is not applicable to Christians only. God's creation (from the beginning) marriage law is for all of mankind - whosoever (a man and woman who both enters into a marriage for the first time).
And what is it that will save you? Living in the flesh or the Spirit? Certainly NOT the flesh.
The flesh can never please God. What you do in your flesh can never please God. No where in the Bible does it say a a one flesh covenant. The church has labeled that thus adding to scripture.
If you marry outside of Christ, it will not please God. If you are not in Christ, NOTHING you do is sanctioned by God. Why don't you get that. That is the reason why you cannot earn your own way to heaven. That is why Christ came. Because we can't get back there ourselves through our flesh.
quote:
quote:
The millisecond someone comes to Christ their past sins are washed away, forgotten by God. If they turn from it (forsake it) and no longer continue in it which is possible through the resurrection power of Jesus Christ which is available to us all.
What you are saying is that their sin is not forgotten by God.
And that does not line up with scripture.
Again, what you are saying does not line up with scripture. God does NOT tell people to divorce to show repentance of being married again.
_____________________________
To have friends, you have to be a friend!
gmcspice4GOD
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/16/2010 6:51:15 PM
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gmcspice
Posts: 1345
Joined: 12/26/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RYNODOG
Rooted did a great job of exposing each falsehood point by point.
Just a question...
quote:
That second marriage is not continuous adultery.
For those who believe this....
When does the adultery end? We know that it is not at the “marriage” ceremony because Jesus says that anyone who marries another commits adultery. Is the new marriage all of a sudden blessed by God when the two people have sex after the adulterous “marriage?”
gmcspice, again, please see that I am not trying to convince you of anything, in case someone is sincerely seeking I only hope to be used to shine a light on some of these lies. The father of all lies is using them to claim one soul after another. Our current individualized, therapeutisized and moral-relativized culture is so very vulnerable to this attack.
I will respect your request not to address you but I will not let the lies go unchecked. I hate them with a passion. They are turning our Father's house of marriage into a meat-market. It is time we make whips and drive them out.
Bryan
LOVE SO AMAZING
The father of lies is what has people telling them they have to divorce to show repentance. They say they can cover a sin with another sin. But you don't realize that do you?
They say what you do in your flesh is pleasing to God when the Bible is very clear that is never will.
Why else do you think Jesus came? He did not come to save the flesh. He came to save your soul. If what you say is true then why is there no giving in marriage in heaven?
How are they turning the father's house to a meat market?
No ye not that YOU are the temple of God?
No building will ever be the house of God. We are the temple of God.
Get out of your flesh and into the Spirit of God and let him show you.
_____________________________
To have friends, you have to be a friend!
gmcspice4GOD
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/16/2010 7:47:48 PM
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RYNODOG
Posts: 664
Joined: 3/15/2010
Status: offline
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quote:
That second marriage is not continuous adultery.
For those who believe this....
When does the adultery end? We know that it is not at the “marriage” ceremony because Jesus says that anyone who marries another commits adultery. Is the new marriage all of a sudden blessed by God when the two people have sex after the adulterous “marriage?”
Bryan
LOVE SO AMAZING
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/17/2010 7:16:37 AM
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gmcspice
Posts: 1345
Joined: 12/26/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RYNODOG
quote:
That second marriage is not continuous adultery.
For those who believe this....
When does the adultery end? We know that it is not at the “marriage” ceremony because Jesus says that anyone who marries another commits adultery. Is the new marriage all of a sudden blessed by God when the two people have sex after the adulterous “marriage?”
Bryan
LOVE SO AMAZING
Bryan, you should understand that a true covenant marriage is between two people and God.
Anything we do without him and in our flesh, is nothing to God because our flesh can never please him.
Basically, the one flesh thing you and others keep ranting and raving about is really nothing without Christ as the base.
It is a contract. And since contract falls under the law because those not in Christ are still under the law, they would be able to divorce as Deut. 24 states.
The adultery started before the act was even committed! The marriage ended when the person divorced for hardness of heart.
If those two people marry in Christ, yes their marriage will be blessed.
Don't tell me you haven't seen these marriages. Because I am sure you have. I know I have. My mom and stepdad had it, and plenty, droves more have had it.
Bryan, when are you going to understand that a real marriage is NOT just about flesh?
You will never see this because you keep stumbling at the stumbling block and cannot get past the flesh.
Jesus nailed the flesh to the cross. And Gave us his spirit to dwell within us.
So, lets recap.
You can't cover a sin with a sin. Only Jesus sacrifice can cover it.
A 1 flesh covenant is NOT actually real. It is not even a covenant. It is a contract. It is an institution that God created to appease men and women's flesh and prevent fornications.
A real COVENANT marriage is one that has Christ at the center of it. Anything done without Christ is nothing and will turn to dust.
I know some will not like me saying this but it is the truth.
Anything not OF FAITH IS SIN. This includes marriage. This includes any action that we is not within the will of God nor faith in him.
Let me ask you something Bryan,
Have you sinned?
what is the greater sin?
Should you be forgiven?
How many times did you do the sin and ask for forgiveness?
Should you be forgiven if you repeat over and over again?
_____________________________
To have friends, you have to be a friend!
gmcspice4GOD
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/17/2010 9:33:15 AM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2408
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RYNODOG
Rooted did a great job of exposing each falsehood point by point.
Bryan
LOVE SO AMAZING
Greetings
But we like to use the Gospel
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed "obey My voice"
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/17/2010 10:00:03 AM
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gmcspice
Posts: 1345
Joined: 12/26/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LoyalGypsy
quote:
ORIGINAL: RYNODOG
Rooted did a great job of exposing each falsehood point by point.
Bryan
LOVE SO AMAZING
Greetings
But we like to use the Gospel
LG
Amen!!
_____________________________
To have friends, you have to be a friend!
gmcspice4GOD
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/17/2010 10:23:21 AM
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huckfinn327
Posts: 918
Joined: 1/30/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LoyalGypsy
quote:
ORIGINAL: RYNODOG
Rooted did a great job of exposing each falsehood point by point.
Bryan
LOVE SO AMAZING
Greetings
But we like to use the Gospel
LG
The Gospel says our Union with Christ is Permanent and Indissoluble: Jesus does not practice divorce with His bride.
Joh 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
Joh 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
Eph 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
_____________________________
NO-REMARRIAGE-THIS-SIDE-OF-DEATH .... JESUS TAUGHT CREATION MARRIAGE
www.jesusremarriagekeller.com
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/17/2010 10:41:35 AM
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gmcspice
Posts: 1345
Joined: 12/26/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
Gospel says our Union with Christ is Permanent and Indissoluble: Jesus does not practice divorce with His bride.
Joh 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
Joh 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
Do you know that Jesus is talking directly about his disciples?
Do you realize that you ignore MUCH of scripture about the church falling away?
quote:
Eph 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
Eph 5:31 For This cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church
Talk about twisting scripture!
Do you realize he is NOT talking about flesh here?
Do you realize that the Church is Spirit and not flesh?
He is speaking of the Church NOT marriage!
Do you realize that you ignore scripture that SAYS nothing good comes from the flesh and nothing in the flesh can ever please God?
Do you realize you are forsaking what Christ taught through Paul that we are to walk in the Spirit and not the flesh so we do not fulfill the lust of the flesh?
Huck, sorry but you picked the wrong scripture.
This is what happens you when cherry pick scripture. You loose the fact that when Jesus is speaking about marriage he is always speaking of the CHURCH in Spirit!
Know ye not that the kingdom of God is WITHIN YOU?!
That you are the temple of God!
Nothing done in the flesh will ever please GOD. The word says that.
Any marriage NOT built on God is not a covenant marriage.
Not to mention that the reason why divorce happens is because people are not obeying Christ and nailing their flesh to the cross. Dying to their flesh and living in HIS Spirit!
What does that tell you? That the flesh profits nothing. The Bible says this!
Yet you are blind because you stumble over your own flesh!
The Bible clearly says that the law is for the flesh!
Christ is for the Spirit!
If you walk in the Spirit you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh and are NOT under condemnation of the Law. You are free!
Any marriage born of the flesh is under the subjection of the Law. And is NOT a covenant marriage.
Covenant marriage is given to us in the example Of Christ being married to the Church. THAT IS SPIRITUAL! NOT fleshly.
_____________________________
To have friends, you have to be a friend!
gmcspice4GOD
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/17/2010 10:47:17 AM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2408
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gmcspice
quote:
ORIGINAL: Rooted
quote:
ORIGINAL: gmcspice
You are leaving out the except for fornication part, Bryan. It is quite correct to leave out the fornication part. It applied to the Jewish espoused couples. Adultery (sexual sin between married people) are forgiven by God when people turn away from it and stop doing it. Sin (whether its adultery, abuse, alcohol or whatever) does not dissolve a one flesh marriage, only the physical death of one of the spouses of a one flesh marriage.
Again. for the masses. Adultery is only if you are still married to that person.
There is no such thing mentioned in the Bible as continuous sin within a marriage.
God recognizes divorce as ENDING a marriage. Whether you like it or not, He does. so it is not continuous adultery.
Again, what you are saying does not line up with scripture. God does NOT tell people to divorce to show repentance of being married again.
Greetings
If I may add some correction?
Again. for the masses. Adultery is only if you are still married to the previous person by reason of an illegitimate divorce.
There is no such thing mentioned in the Bible as continuous sin within the second marriage by a legitimate divorce....
WHEREBY the same God who joins.... is the same God who separates and recognizes that divorce as ENDING a marriage.
Whether you like it or not, He does. so it is not continuous adultery.
Correct!
If I may
Jesus said, that He does nothing of Himself,
John 5:19 Then Jesus answered and said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for "whatever" He does, the Son also does in like manner.
If the Son also does in like manner....Then exception is from God and simply separates the good from evil.
So when the time comes that the Father Himself has to judge the world whom He loves,
God hates divorce because.... prophetically... He will be forced to judge the world in whom He loves.
By the prophetic words itself,
I don't see Jesus.... nor it is heard.... that marriage after divorce by reason the exception is a sin,
In the OT sins were only covered, therefore they remained...
But by the exception.... sin is done away with.... and both are therefore attributed to... their rightful owners
Attributing adultery to something that is not there or no longer exists , by the grace of God is not reiterating after the word of God, therefore saying ones sin remains by the power of the HS is blasphemy of the HS
>>>>(That is what subtraction means) ...subtraction is attributing to something that is not there. =0
otherwise....
if it were not for the exception, God Himself would sinning, being forced to judge the world in whom He "loves =( or whom He covers), by not being able to separate the good from the evil. = therefore everyone goes!
Gen 8:21
The exception simply separates the good from evil, or between that which is only covered... and that which is done away with.
LG
< Message edited by LoyalGypsy -- 8/17/2010 3:46:45 PM >
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed "obey My voice"
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/17/2010 11:52:15 AM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2408
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gmcspice
quote:
ORIGINAL: LoyalGypsy
quote:
ORIGINAL: Showmethetruth
quote:
ORIGINAL: gmcspice
I did not say a person could not live without a spouse. I have always said it is a choice. You condemn the choice. I don't have any power to condemn, but I believe the bible does. Murder is a choice, fornication is a choice, etc. Any sin we commit is a choice. Some of those choices are condemned in the bible.quote:
Nope, he sure didn't. BUT He did so that we could have a second chance and forgiveness A second chance and forgiveness so we could be with Him, yes.quote:
I never said people could divorce for any reason. You just did.
So, NO, I am not disagreeing with the text. Can Mary be forgiven if she does marry again? Yes. does the bible say to divorce to get that forgiveness, no it does not. But YOU say it does. The point is you tell people it is OK to go ahead and commit the sin (in advance) because we will be forgiven anyway.
quote:
Actually to show repentance, the person would stay as they are and make that marriage work. So is there any other time we can say, after we realize something is a sin, "I'm sorry, God. I didn't realize this was wrong. I'm not going to change anything, but please forgive me."
Greetings
quote:
Murder is a choice, fornication is a choice, etc. Any sin we commit is a choice.
Some of those choices are condemned in the bible
Actually ALL sin is condemned as it relates to the flesh.
Rom 8:3
quote:
after we realize something is a sin,
After we realize something WAS a sin it’s already been committed = before that realization,
Therefore there is nothing we can do apart from Christ to fix it.
Here is what the Bible teaches us Christians. (Those who are saved by FAITH)
And it is very simple and easy to understand as it written in the word of God
Jud 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present [you] faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
The word of God shows us that Christ works through our temptations, and that example is seen clearly here when Jesus stood in between satan and Peter there in Mat 16:23
But he turned, and said unto Peter; Get thee behind me, Satan:
Therefore ....this is picture of the “working” of the Holy Spirit of God ....and it is written and defined is again given by inspiration vey simply.... in the first part of
= Jud 1:24 Now unto “him (= Jesus Christ)....that is able to ....”Keep you “from” falling,”
Now.... by same the word of God... which “always teaches”... the FULL Counsel = the other part
It is written in Jude1:24
“And “
=to present [you] faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
What the “and” means there....
is in addition....
Therefore
In addition to being able to KEEP us from falling ... He (= Jesus Christ)... is also able “to present you/us faultless!” = after we SIN.
What that means (faultless!” in reiteration =(to present you faultless)
by the same word of God...... That means ....“after”... we sin....
or are found “at fault” = obliviously
=“to present [you] faultless!”
So He Jesus Christ... is both able to keep us from falling..... And if we do sin He is able to present FAULTLESS... before the presence of his glory (= God the Father).... with exceeding joy.
..... (Because we; the born again; have already called on His name to save us)
quote:
So is there any other time we can say, after we realize something is a sin, "I'm sorry, God. I didn't realize this was wrong. I'm not going to change anything, but please forgive me."
Absolutely... That’s called the Gospel.
quote:
I'm not going to change anything?
Absolutely, if we were able to.... then we would need a savior,
but the truth is.... We can’t change a thing after it’s been committed,
....hasn’t on ever read the OT?
John reiterates the same =(after it’s been committed)
1Jo 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.
And
If.. any man sin,
“we have”.... an advocate with the Father,
Jesus Christ the righteous :
Full Counsel
LG
As usual LG, you beat me to the punch. Exactly what I was going to say in response to what Show posted against me.
Why is it they don't realize the truth? That once sin is committed it is finished. It is death unless we repent and ask for forgivenss with our heart and not commit the sin again.
Once it is done, there is nothing we can do outside of Christ to change what is already done.
Yet they still say a person who is married again HAS to divorce to show repentance. It just does not make sense to me. How can you cover a sin with another sin?
You can't. It must be covered by the blood of Christ and never repeated again. That means to not divorce again.
Why don't they see?
Greetings
quote:
As usual LG, you beat me to the punch. Exactly what I was going to say in response to what Show posted against me.
LOL!!
Gal 6:14 But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ,
quote:
Why is it they don't realize the truth?
From what we all have gathered ... is the other side in this debate knows the truth, otherwise the Gospel could not be rejected so quickly...
quote:
Yet they still say a person who is married again HAS to divorce to show repentance. It just does not make sense to me.
Paul says.... in verse 13 of 2Cr that.... if we know that Jesus Christ is in US ...
I find it kind of hard to believe that Jesus.... after forgiving the sin and moving in to take residence by the HS of God in us.... for the purpose to keep us from falling... again...
I find it kind of hard to believe that Jesus would suggest such a thing 
(It would be like double jeopardy)...
Or even worse... Him, not believing in His own work.
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed "obey My voice"
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/17/2010 4:15:00 PM
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Showmethetruth
Posts: 240
Joined: 4/7/2010
Status: offline
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quote:
Paul tells us also that when we get saved to remain as we are. If we are married(1, 2,3, etc.) to remain in it and ask God to bless it.
God does not tell us at all to divorce that 2nd spouse to show repentance.
Please stop telling people they have to divorce to show repentance...
If an unmarried couple living together in fornication come to Jesus, can they maintain their lifestyle, or must something change?
If a homosexual couple living together and having unnatural relations come to Jesus, can they maintain their lifestyle, or must something change?
If polygamous Mormon comes to Jesus, can they maintain their lifestyle, or must something change?
If a married person who is having an adulterous affair comes to Jesus, can he maintain that lifestyle, or must something change?
These situations may be legal in the eyes of the civil laws, but they are not sanctioned by God. The same goes for marrying another after a divorce from the first. The state may say it is legal, Jesus Christ called it adultery. He does NOT ask us to remain in a sinful condition.
quote:
The millisecond someone comes to Christ their past sins are washed away, forgotten by God.
What you are saying is that their sin is not forgotten by God.
And that does not line up with scripture.
There is a difference in an imperfect christian (all of us) who commits a sin, and someone who claims to know Him but is unwilling to give up their willful sin that part of their lifestyle. If the above examples must change their lifestyle as evidence that they are now following Jesus, and no longer willing to live in sin, do you call that change "working" for their salvation, or fruits worthy of repentance?
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/17/2010 5:02:18 PM
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pd57
Posts: 166
Joined: 8/10/2010
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Showmethetruth
quote:
Paul tells us also that when we get saved to remain as we are. If we are married(1, 2,3, etc.) to remain in it and ask God to bless it.
God does not tell us at all to divorce that 2nd spouse to show repentance.
Please stop telling people they have to divorce to show repentance...
If an unmarried couple living together in fornication come to Jesus, can they maintain their lifestyle, or must something change?
If a homosexual couple living together and having unnatural relations come to Jesus, can they maintain their lifestyle, or must something change?
If polygamous Mormon comes to Jesus, can they maintain their lifestyle, or must something change?
If a married person who is having an adulterous affair comes to Jesus, can he maintain that lifestyle, or must something change?
These situations may be legal in the eyes of the civil laws, but they are not sanctioned by God. The same goes for marrying another after a divorce from the first. The state may say it is legal, Jesus Christ called it adultery. He does NOT ask us to remain in a sinful condition.
quote:
The millisecond someone comes to Christ their past sins are washed away, forgotten by God.
What you are saying is that their sin is not forgotten by God.
And that does not line up with scripture.
There is a difference in an imperfect christian (all of us) who commits a sin, and someone who claims to know Him but is unwilling to give up their willful sin that part of their lifestyle. If the above examples must change their lifestyle as evidence that they are now following Jesus, and no longer willing to live in sin, do you call that change "working" for their salvation, or fruits worthy of repentance?
You are correct these are not even Legal relationships in relation to Gods Law! They must end them ASAP!
quote:
The same goes for marrying another after a divorce from the first. The state may say it is legal, Jesus Christ called it adultery.
Ummmm......... NOT! He never said that. Look @ the words he used he was NOT talking about DIVORCE!
As long as the Divorce was legal in Gods eyes under the law. Look @ Deut 24:1-2. There is the law of God Almighty!
Stop telling lies!
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/17/2010 5:57:50 PM
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Showmethetruth
Posts: 240
Joined: 4/7/2010
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: pd57
quote:
The same goes for marrying another after a divorce from the first. The state may say it is legal, Jesus Christ called it adultery.
Ummmm......... NOT! He never said that. Look @ the words he used he was NOT talking about DIVORCE!
As long as the Divorce was legal in Gods eyes under the law. Look @ Deut 24:1-2. There is the law of God Almighty!
Stop telling lies!
First of all pd, a lie is saying something contrary to what you know to be true. Are you insinuating that I am saying one thing in order to deceive someone, while I believe something different? We may disagree on some things, but it doesn't mean one of us is lying, so lets not resort to baseless accusations.
I get the feeling you are going with the "putting away" versus "divorce" argument. If so, we can discuss that.
Also, Deuteronomy 24:1-2 is not the command in that passage, it is part of the condition before the command comes. Using your logic, one could say the following:
Deut 21:15-17 The law of God almighty says it is acceptable to have two wives, and even to hate one of them...
Deut 21:18-21 The law of God almighty says to kill your children if they disobey...
Deut 22:14-21 The law of God almighty says to kill any young women who were not virgins on their wedding night...
Deut 22:28-29 The law of God almighty says if you see a young woman you want, you can take her by force, as long as you pay off her father...
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