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RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread - 7/13/2010 9:12:54 PM
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sarju60
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From: Originally Iowa now live in Alabama
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elyon, you could be talking about my own daughter except she is a few years younger. It is heart breaking. I try to tell her that perhaps things will change for her in time. She did finish college, just barely because she could not attend classes the last semester but her work was so good that she still ended with good grades. She can't work outside of the home and had to file for social security. She does not like it either but it is the only way she can achieve some sort of independence, get out from under the student loans, and have her meds paid for. Your friend is lucky to have you. Just keep impressing on her how much she means to you and to others around her and how much she contributes to those around her.
my daughter's favorite verse is: " And He has said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness." Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me."
2 Corinthians 12:9
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Matthew 5:9 Blessed [are] the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God
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RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread - 7/18/2010 6:29:01 PM
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theprincessbuttercup
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I feel for your friend, and I applaud you for being so supportive. It is sad that mental illness is often viewed so differently than visible illness. If she were quadriplegic or an amputee or blind with MS....it probably wouldn't even be an issue. I like the idea of volunteering or finding some craft or product that she could make on her own terms.
There is a big difference between playing the system and having a disability. It sounds like this girl wants to work, wants to go to school, but her illness is just not cooperating. I would continue to encourage and pray for her.
_____________________________
Jude 24, 25
after 15 minutes I gave up trying to make this av fit...good grief
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RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread - 7/31/2010 12:08:34 AM
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autocad
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I just want to chime in a little bit here.
The bible uses the word 'mad' to describe people not in there right mind. I really should do a study of that.
Some mental issues can be from sin, others are from imbalances, other, from injuries. I have seen people become 'normal' when they are on the right meds. I do believe Jesus can heal anyone, but it's God's will.
So, my short story is, I was in a BAD car wreck, and had a closed head injury, and did I become weird! I could not even balance a check book, or even walk straight, for 2 full years. And, I would do 'unusual' things, that normal people wouldn't do.
I'd look back and think 'I did that ??". Dizzy, and instant memory loss. Like where was I for the last 3 hours? Absolutely no clue.
It would go 'blank', and then I would be in Walmart. Hmmm, what am I doing here? How did I get here? I couldn't drive, either.
And other times, I would get very dizzy. Whoa, I'm floating! Really floating, (REALLY FLOATING, like being on Demerol pain killer, but no Demerol).
So, I try to be very patient with anyone who is bi-polar, and other mental issues.
I want to reach out to people going through these things,
John
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RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread - 8/7/2010 8:57:04 PM
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theprincessbuttercup
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I had a friend in high school who was in bad wreck our senior year. He recovered, but his personality was somewhat altered. Actually, I think there are similarities between that and mental illnesses, esp bipolar disorder. Because the chemistry of the brain actually changes when manic or depressed.
I think the big difference is, a person who has an accident cannot control what happened to their brain. A person who has bipolar (like me), knows that treatment would help, and yet refuses to treat.....to me, that person shouldn't be cut any real slack for their actions. It's like driving drunk. If you get in the car drunk, then you are responsible for whatever happens when you are driving.
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Jude 24, 25
after 15 minutes I gave up trying to make this av fit...good grief
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RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread - 8/8/2010 4:09:41 PM
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theprincessbuttercup
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Definitely, pink. people don't understand sometimes that taking a med for MI is not like taking ibuprofen for a headache. We're talking about the brain here, and meds react differently with everyone. Sometimes meds that work for years stop working. I'm thinking more about a person who knows they have a serious illness and just don't WANT to do anything about it. If I am taking my meds and following treatment, and something wacky happens and I do something terrible, I am still accountable, but the state of my health is a mitigating circumstance. If, however, I did something terrible because I knew that something would make me psychotic and I just didn't care.....that's different. personally, I don't like that fact that it is harder to be creative, that I have gained weight, that my thyroid is weirded out, etc. But because I have two children and a DH who need me....I'll keep treating my bipolar because there's more than just me to consider. But I also know all too well that even with treatment I may still have an episode. But at least I am doing everything in my power to take care of myself.
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Jude 24, 25
after 15 minutes I gave up trying to make this av fit...good grief
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RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread - 8/29/2010 6:50:30 PM
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Nutty4God
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I can relate to some of this stuff. I've been on disability for bipolar & schizo-affective disorder for a long time now. I've attended a local day treatment program where I learned how to cope better with my illness. Right now, I'm not able to attend there due to having to help my relative, but I may go back, even though I know just about everything there is to know about mental illness.
I feel bad about not being able to work, but when I tried to go back to work a few years ago, my paranoia & anxiety returned, forcing me to quit my job. I take lots of medication, but still have some mood swing problems, so working right now is not an option. Add to that the sedating effects of the heavy amounts of medication I take and my inability to drive at times because of some of them.
I do keep busy posting here and doing housework. I feel bad that I cannot contribute to society in the way that I want to, but I just need to not isolate myself and get out into the community more. This is especially true, now that I've moved to a smaller, safer community.
The point I'm trying to make is what someone else already stated: God has His reasons why He allows things to happen to us. When the time comes, He will reveal them to us, either in this age or in the age to come. Just pray, trust in Him and stay in His Word daily, while you wait for His answers.
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RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread - 1/1/2011 1:14:46 AM
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leonfigg3
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I am not a big fan "One Stop Threads", but at least there is a moderator when postings by individuals may take the discussion way off track.
I have a couple of disclaimers to get out of the way before I go into what I want to say.
1. I am not sure this is the corect thread for me to post this rant
2. I do not mean to violate TOS in any way by putting down a particular undertsanding of Christianity that I do not fully understand. I am mad and I need to lash out and the only people I am not abale to lash out at, I also am seeking information and evidence that what they say has any varifiable evidence.
I have gone through this thread and read many of the postings. Like many I have trouble with the mental health system, not as a patient but as a family member of a patient. It is s sytem that though, in books and literature preach about including the familly in a patient's treatment, really do not care about the families of their patients.
Aside from my wife and the mental health sytem I feel I need to lash out at the well meaning Christians that my wife surrounds herself. Christians who seem to wrap up their Christian theology purely on the basis of faith healing and pratcially disregard the rest of what the Bible, Jesus, and God teach us.
How does the Book of Job agree with their theology?
How does the story of Paul, who spoke of having a thorn in the flesh that God has not taken from him, agree with their theology?
Where is there any documented cases/ evidence of a person really being healed of any kind of mental illness purely from spiritual healing?
< Message edited by leonfigg3 -- 1/1/2011 1:25:35 AM >
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RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread - 1/1/2011 11:42:04 AM
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LivingParadox
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quote:
ORIGINAL: leonfigg3
I am not a big fan "One Stop Threads", but at least there is a moderator when postings by individuals may take the discussion way off track.
I have a couple of disclaimers to get out of the way before I go into what I want to say.
1. I am not sure this is the corect thread for me to post this rant
2. I do not mean to violate TOS in any way by putting down a particular undertsanding of Christianity that I do not fully understand. I am mad and I need to lash out and the only people I am not abale to lash out at, I also am seeking information and evidence that what they say has any varifiable evidence.
I have gone through this thread and read many of the postings. Like many I have trouble with the mental health system, not as a patient but as a family member of a patient. It is s sytem that though, in books and literature preach about including the familly in a patient's treatment, really do not care about the families of their patients.
Aside from my wife and the mental health sytem I feel I need to lash out at the well meaning Christians that my wife surrounds herself. Christians who seem to wrap up their Christian theology purely on the basis of faith healing and pratcially disregard the rest of what the Bible, Jesus, and God teach us.
How does the Book of Job agree with their theology?
How does the story of Paul, who spoke of having a thorn in the flesh that God has not taken from him, agree with their theology?
Where is there any documented cases/ evidence of a person really being healed of any kind of mental illness purely from spiritual healing?
Hugs and my empathy as only someone who has had family with serious illness can understand.
_____________________________
Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound,
That saved a wretch like me....
I once was lost but now am found,
Was blind, but now, I see.
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RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread - 1/1/2011 10:55:33 PM
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leonfigg3
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mollymouser
quote:
ORIGINAL: leonfigg3
Where is there any documented cases/ evidence of a person really being healed of any kind of mental illness purely from spiritual healing?
Do you think that God can use doctors to heal people? I do. That can be spiritual healing.
Do you think God can use counselors and therapist to heal people? I do. That can be spiritual healing.
Do you think God can use medications to heal people? I do. That can be spiritual healing.
Do you think God can use lifestyle and diet changes to heal people? I do. That can be spiritual healing.
As to researching documented cases of "spiritual healing" ... what research have you done? What books have you read? What websites have you checked? What experts have you consulted with?
I am not exactly sure how to take your post, but I will say this-I believe mental illness is something that one does not get healed of, but learns to manage like diabetes. The patient or a family member learns to spot the early stages of mood swings, and what trigers them. Who, when, how, and through whom a person gets healed is up to God.
Also, if God so decides to heal a person from bipo;ar illness, or any kind of mental illness there should be some sort of evidence that it has happened.
My situation is that my wife surrounds herself with people who sooner or later convince her that she is healed just because she believes she is (this is the form of Spiritual Healing I am talking about-The Name it and Claim it Crowd), and she no longer has to take medication, she no longer has to listen to annyone who does not share her belief that she is healed.
No, I have not done much research about people being healed from memtal illness. I have heard that there are testimones by people who claim to have been healed of mental illness, but very little in the form of actual proof is given. There is one lady at our church who claimaed to have been healed from bipolar illness, she was going to write a book about it. Her husband was in my Men's group. You know something? She was not healed the mental illness just took on a different form.
I have come across websites on the internet run by people that live with the mental illnesss. They seem to use it as a form of therapy and a means to help others understand
< Message edited by leonfigg3 -- 1/3/2011 11:09:57 AM >
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RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread - 1/10/2011 10:51:54 PM
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leonfigg3
Posts: 32
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mollymouser
As to your wife's situation ... if she is ill, my personal belief is that she should be seeking appropriate treatment for her illness, especially if it's one that can impact others by her failure to do so. Perhaps this is something you could discuss with your wife and a doctor? Or your wife and your pastor? Or your wife and a counselor?
This is terrific advice for a couple dealing with the onset of a spouse with mental illness, but my wife was diagnosised as bi-polar when she was in her twenties. Befroe we got married. She is now in her fifties and has been to just about every hospital psych ward within a fifty mile radius from where we live-twice. in the 23 years we have been married.
The trick of dealing with a person with bi-polar is for the spouse to be sensitive to the early signs, and triggers of an episode. It is within that narrow window of opportunity that the one with the illness may be made to listen and co-operate. Outside of that window, it is very difficult, near impossible, to reason with the person. The "healthy" one is looked upon as the reason , and solution to the other's problems, depending what mood is dominatate at any given minute, or space of time. At this point the spouse has very little control of the situation and just has to wait until authorities become involved when the spouse becomes a danger to either herself or others.
It becomes even trickier, when the one with the illness seeks healing so bad that the only people she really listens to, religious or otherwise, are people like her, and people who believe that if you believe you are healed you are healed. Thus they look, and take advantasge of just about every opportunity to see and interpret any sign (license plate, bumper sticker, lost meds) a reason/ excuse to stop taking their meds.
Almost four months ago, my wife found an excuse, and interpretted signs from God that she was healed and no longer had to take her meds. By the time she told me, she was well beyond the point of listening to me and my doubts that she was healed, not to mention my being upset about her breaking and agrement, about her meds, after her last episode (reason for breaking agreement-"God had other plans")
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RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread - 1/25/2011 2:07:35 PM
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theprincessbuttercup
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From: Boo Radley's back yard
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leon, my heart breaks for you. I would love to say exactly what I think to these emotion based, never apparently read the whole Bible, signs and wonders addicted, shallow faithers who actually believe that someone with an illness should just throw caution to the wind because everyone prayed and someone had a "fit." Actually, I did a pretty good job of saying what I think just then.
These people are irresponsible. Some man in Yugoslavia tried to tell my DH to stop taking his insulin on faith (he has type I) diabetes back in the 80's. The man was a nut. You just don't do that. I have a few few people imply that I could be free of this bipolar curse if......But I am not listening. If God wants to speak to me or to DH then He will. Otherwise, I am taking my meds. And you are right about the narrow window. Even with my meds, things sometimes get off.....and DH usually realizes it before I do. Bipolar disease has a higher rate of people going off meds than any other mental illness, except maybe schizophrenia. Because the meds make you feel different and most of us miss the mania.
I don't know if this fringe of cast out the mental illness sayers will answer to God for what happens when people follow their ill advice. But I hope so.
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Jude 24, 25
after 15 minutes I gave up trying to make this av fit...good grief
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RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread - 2/10/2011 11:50:57 PM
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magdaleine
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It's been a long time since I've been in this thread.
Leon, I agree wholeheartedly that a person shouldn't stop their meds just because they believe they've been healed. Even when Jesus healed, he told the lepers to go see the priests. The priests were the ones who had the authority to declare lepers healed and able to return to society. At the same time, I know that God heals. There's just so many quacks out there that it's sometimes hard to tell the real from the fake.
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May God bless each of you richly.
Please keep in touch:
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How to interpret BPD spritually - 4/13/2011 1:38:24 PM
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Jersey79
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Hi Guys and Girls, I really could use some advice. I have borderline personality disorder. The hardest thing about is that everything can be going fine for a couple months but then something triggers it and I do a lot of damage. I memorize bible verses, I pray, I look for hidden sin, I seek God, but the only thing that makes a difference is when I take my medication.
It's very hard to explain, but when I am having an episode I see things in a very different way and while I'm in it, I think I am completely right and can't "step out" of how I see and what I think. It causes problems in my marriage and in life. I start and stop my medication because I feel like I am trying to be sanctified by medication instead of God's Spirit. And how I act sometimes, makes me question whether I have the Holy Spirit in me or not and that just makes me more depressed because I'm doing everything I can and trusting God. But where is his Spirit? Where are the fruits of the Spirit? And what would I have done 400 years ago? Would I not be saved 400 years ago because there wasn't a medication to deal with my chemical imbalance? Do you see where I am going with this?
I want to get to the bottom of this issue so that I can have peace taking my medication. Thanks for your help
Jersey
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RE: How to interpret BPD spritually - 4/20/2011 6:59:15 PM
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magdaleine
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Jersey, your post would probably fit more appropriately in the Mental Health Encouragement thread, rather than in the debate thread. I don't know much about borderline personality disorder but I do struggle with long-term, chronic depression. It bothers me that people isolate mental illnesses as something different from other illnesses. Why is it okay to take high blood pressure pills or insulin or chemotherapy without one's faith being called into question but not anti-depressants, anti-psychotics, etc.? Just with other illnesses, one way God works is through doctors and the medicine they can prescribe. One thing about mental illness is that sometimes our reality can be skewed and so we heap more blame onto ourselves than is justified or we do the opposite and think things are better than they are.
I do believe, however, that whether sick or well, we can pursue God and keep pursuing him. We do that through prayer, reading and studying the Bible, going to church, hanging out with Christian people, listening to Christian music, reading Christian books and basically immersing ourselves in all things related to God. You ask, "Where is his Spirit? Where are the fruits of the Spirit?" Well, God's Spirit is often with us even when we're unaware of his presence. As for the fruit, some fruit takes a long time to be produced. I remember hearing about one plant that flowers only once every hundred years or some ridiculous length of time like that. So, in the intervening years, does that mean that the plant isn't truly the species it appears to be? Of course not! It just takes longer for the flower/fruit to be produced.
One word that keeps appearing in the New Testament is "perseverance." We need to keep on keeping on even when things don't seem to be falling into place.
As for what you would have done 400 years ago, what did diabetics, cancer patients, or plague victims do? They died. Life expectancy was way shorter then than now. People with mental illnesses were mistreated or sometimes accepted as quirky and different from everyone else. There sure was a lot less understanding then than now.
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Maggie
May God bless each of you richly.
Please keep in touch:
magdaleine@gmail.com
Maggie's New Musings: http://forum.bible.org/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=16102
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RE: Mental Health One Stop Thread - 5/17/2011 4:22:39 PM
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cynthia
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From: Beautiful Puget Sound Region
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I want to reply to these posts, but know that the discussion is going to be closed and directed here anyway, so I decided to post replies here. I will post a link so they can find the response if they like.
quote:
ORIGINAL: WasLostAmFound
YES!!! ADD/ADHD is a gift. It's a shame the rest of the world sees it as something "abnormal" to be medicated out.
I'm adult ADHD with ADHD kids. Another upside to it is that the chaos of kids, noise, etc. doesn't really phase us! The biggest downside? I lose EVERYTHING!!!
The book mentioned is a very good book for seeing the upside of this "disorder". Too many books, therapists and teachers are all 'gloom and doom' for us.
quote:
ORIGINAL: NWgardengal
I can relate, I'm dyslexic, and know a few people who are extremely dyslexic. There's a positive side to it, dyslexics tend to be very creative, and process things uniquely.
I bet with most "disabilities" there's a gift attached :)
First of all, there are varying degrees of ADD - ADHD and many things that impact a person's ability to be able to cope and function well. I personally am able to function well with ADHD, but have to carefully plan and have certain organizational systems in place that I follow to stay focused and on task. When people find out I have AHDA, they are usually incredulous. I even had a psychologist tell me that I must not have ADHD or I wouldn't be able to adequately homeschool my children, so I must have been misdiagnosed. I knew this man for less than an hour when he made this pronouncement. I did not go back to him.
I do not like psychotropic drugs and refused to even try them for myself. However, I understand that people get to a point where they feel they have exhausted all other avenues and need more help than what they have found without meds. I don’t fault people for that. You do the best you can and sometimes more is needed.
Noise and chaos may not phase some people, but it phases me and makes it very difficult for me to stay on task and focused on what I’m supposed to be doing. To say that “It is a shame that the world sees it as something "abnormal" to be medicated out.” is unfair. Sure some people feel that way, but some people choose medication because ADHD is making it impossible to have a happy, productive life. It can interfere with a person’s ability to have healthy relationships, hold a job, succeed academically or hold a thought in his head long enough to do something productive with it. If it gets to that point, then it could lead to further problems that a lack of self control and impulsive behavior can lead to: jail, divorce, abuse, the list goes on.
I do not think that giving a person psychotropic drugs is like giving a diabetic insulin (an often used phrase). The body does not produce Adderall or (name a drug). Adderall does not replace the body’s missing Adderall. However, it can add something that will give a person the edge they need in order to gain some level of control and focus to be able to function. It may not even be needed permanently. For example, if my parents had given it to me for a while when I was a kid and given me way to organize and cope, it may have helped me. Maybe not. Maybe all I needed was an understanding of what was holding me back and tools to function well. For other people, that is not the case. For example a strong willed child with ADHD may not be able to process the instruction and information given due to his personality and may have a lot harder time of it with ADHD . There are many factors involved. There is no one size fits all. We are each unique creations.
As for ADHD being a gift, I can see how it could be viewed that way when it is not having an overwhelmingly negative impact on other aspects of life, but until it is not making life too difficult, the gift does not become evident at all.
< Message edited by cynthia -- 5/17/2011 4:29:18 PM >
_____________________________
Isaiah 30:21
Whether you turn to the right or to the left, your ears will hear a voice behind you, saying, “This is the way; walk in it.”
Vistit my blog: http://livingcommentaries.blogspot.com/
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RE: Mental Health One Stop Thread - 7/22/2011 10:37:42 PM
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stampinlady
Posts: 1156
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From: Northern IL
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Not sure if this has been discussed, but is there any proof that some schizophrenia is caused by demons ? I'm currently watching 20/20 and they're about it in children. It's heartbreaking to watch. A few of these children seem to be demon possessed and some not. I'm asking in all seriousness and I'm not part of the "faith healing demon behind every door" movement. The show isn't telling us whether or not these families are religious or not and I'm curious.
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Deb
There is no "cosmic dog whislte. It's gonna be loud folks !!!
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RE: Mental Health One Stop Thread - 7/29/2011 6:11:05 PM
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cih92
Posts: 250
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What is the nature of a mental health problem? Is it a physical problem, spiritual problem, or both? Is it a medical condition like colon cancer or is it a problem with one's soul? I'm just asking because the solution to this problem depends upon the nature of this problem. Also, there are different views about the nature of this problem.
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RE: Mental Health One Stop Thread - 7/29/2011 7:33:34 PM
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cynthia
Posts: 6669
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: Beautiful Puget Sound Region
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cih92
What is the nature of a mental health problem? Is it a physical problem, spiritual problem, or both? Is it a medical condition like colon cancer or is it a problem with one's soul? I'm just asking because the solution to this problem depends upon the nature of this problem. Also, there are different views about the nature of this problem.
If someone mentions that her cat has flees, it might cause some people to feel itchy.
If it is dry and a person's skin gets itchy when it dries out.
Both have itchy skin, but for entirely different reasons. One is mental/emotional, the other is physical, but both have a physical manifestation in the person feeling their skin itches.
There can be many causes for the same type of symptom. The key is to find out what is causing it.
Sometimes a physical problem can cause emotional or mental problems. Sometimes it starts with a mental or emotional problem that causes physical symptoms.
Sometimes there is a spiritual component.
I have personally been involved in deliverance ministry and I didn't realize what was happening when I prayed from some people was that demons were coming out.  I talked to my pastor about some of things that were happening and she explained it to me. Some of these people were healed from things that had previously required medication. I am not going to get into all the details, because I am not here to document anything. I am just giving some personal experience testimony.
_____________________________
Isaiah 30:21
Whether you turn to the right or to the left, your ears will hear a voice behind you, saying, “This is the way; walk in it.”
Vistit my blog: http://livingcommentaries.blogspot.com/
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RE: Mental Health One Stop Thread - 8/1/2011 12:04:58 PM
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cih92
Posts: 250
Joined: 4/18/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cynthia
quote:
ORIGINAL: cih92
What is the nature of a mental health problem? Is it a physical problem, spiritual problem, or both? Is it a medical condition like colon cancer or is it a problem with one's soul? I'm just asking because the solution to this problem depends upon the nature of this problem. Also, there are different views about the nature of this problem.
If someone mentions that her cat has flees, it might cause some people to feel itchy.
If it is dry and a person's skin gets itchy when it dries out.
Both have itchy skin, but for entirely different reasons. One is mental/emotional, the other is physical, but both have a physical manifestation in the person feeling their skin itches.
There can be many causes for the same type of symptom. The key is to find out what is causing it.
Sometimes a physical problem can cause emotional or mental problems. Sometimes it starts with a mental or emotional problem that causes physical symptoms.
Sometimes there is a spiritual component.
I have personally been involved in deliverance ministry and I didn't realize what was happening when I prayed from some people was that demons were coming out. I talked to my pastor about some of things that were happening and she explained it to me. Some of these people were healed from things that had previously required medication. I am not going to get into all the details, because I am not here to document anything. I am just giving some personal experience testimony.
Thank you for your input.
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MARRIED TO A MILITARY PILOT 
PLEASE PRAY FOR MY DEPLOYED HUSBAND! 
