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RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread - 5/22/2010 4:55:11 PM
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sharonjef2007
Posts: 1772
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quote:
I personally don't see how being of a quiverful mindset can be a symptom of mental illness.
Here is the thing....I do not think they are a tried and true QF family. Nobody will EVER be able to convince me that you can have that number of children, average time between pregnancies is 6 months, and not be TTC. And, TTC is not leaving your fertility up to God and therefore not QF.
As for the Mental Health issue, I don't think she is mentally ill. I do think that when menopause hits or she is physically not able to have children anymore, she is going to have some issues. Not mental illness, just issues to deal with. I don't know how she will respond when she can no longer be pregnant since pregnancy and nursing is all she really has lived/known for 20 years. At worse, there may be an addiction issue to pregnancy.
ETA....for what it is worth, all the questions being asked in that thread do not equate to her being mentally ill and not being able to care for 19 kids. But she and Jim Bob have allueded to the fact that #20 may be on the way. It is not a possible mental illness that means she can not care for all her children, but the fact that her older children are the ones raising the younger ones.
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RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread - 5/22/2010 5:02:02 PM
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3cappuccinosmom
Posts: 2127
Joined: 4/12/2005
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I was the one who used those words. My post was not about mental illness or people who suffer from mental illness.
quote:
The thing that DID bug me was the idea that being mental ill would be "nasty" or "malicious,"
I love you, sister,  but that sentence turned my actual words on their head.  That is not what I said.
The suggestion in the other thread was meant as derogatory to Michelle, and thus it was nasty and malicious. Like using the "R"-word as an insult, or suggesting that because someone does a certain thing, that is an indication of mental illness and therefore what they do is not valid, reasonable, or acceptable. When "mental illness" is used as a label in order to tear someone down or cast aspersions on their character or mental capacity or ability to parent, that is wrong.
IE: I believe in the fundamentals of Biblical Christianity. I could probably be called a "fundamentalist", and there is nothing wrong with being a "fundamentalist" assuming a certain definition. However, it is also entirely possible for someone to use that very same word in a manner which is nasty and malicious.
I am sure that "excessive childbearing" might be a symptom for some mental illnesses. I think that applying that to the Duggars is ridiculous.  They have been morally opposed in a consistent manner to birth control for decades. I do not believe that being consistent about convictions in the face of hardship is a sign of mental illness.
< Message edited by 3cappuccinosmom -- 5/22/2010 5:11:51 PM >
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"Yup, I'm in agreement with Maggie here on all of this" Manda, April 2010
Global Tantrum Crisis
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RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread - 5/22/2010 5:33:31 PM
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theprincessbuttercup
Posts: 1095
Joined: 3/23/2010
From: Boo Radley's back yard
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I was VERY fertile. Both times that I got pregnant, I had been of the pill 1 month. So if Michelle is anything like that, then she wouldn't have to be trying to get pg. I just feel like with as many people as there are around the Duggars, someone would have said something if anybody had mental health problems. You know how that media stuff works.
I admit I read that other set of posts VERY fast, and I don't always get context when I do that. Speed reading works great for novels, but probably not forums.
I would hope that if Michelle ever did struggle with depression or any other issue that she would feel comfortable seeking health and that the world at large would not make it harder for her (like they did with Jon and Kate, etc)
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RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread - 5/22/2010 8:13:12 PM
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macokjc
Posts: 194
Joined: 2/24/2008
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quote:
The suggestion in the other thread was meant as derogatory to Michelle, and thus it was nasty and malicious
I'm sorry, but just because somebody made an observation and gave their opinion, it does not make it nasty and malicious. Mentally ill covers quite a broad-spectrum, and it is quite possible that it is true. I suffered from depression after my last 2 children. I can only imagine that the hormonal roller-coaster that Michelle's body goes through w/ each pregnancy could throw her body for a loop. Just because somebody is stating their opinion does not make it derogatory. You might not agree with it, and that's fine, but assuming that they are being nasty and malicious is quite nasty and malicious itself.
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RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread - 5/22/2010 9:05:11 PM
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macokjc
Posts: 194
Joined: 2/24/2008
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quote:
If the person agreed with Michelle's lifestyle, would they have still thrown out the mental illness statement?
But disagreeing with a lifestyle or a choice does not make an observation nasty and malicious.
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RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread - 5/23/2010 3:40:21 PM
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theprincessbuttercup
Posts: 1095
Joined: 3/23/2010
From: Boo Radley's back yard
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There's only a week left in Mental Health Awareness Month. I have read my local paper as they have heralded all sorts of other causes and walks this months, but there has not been one word written about Mental Illness. I have decided to write a sincere and heartfelt letter to the editor informing him of the significance of this month and giving a little info on the common misconceptions about MI. Anyone else with me?
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RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread - 6/1/2010 6:38:18 PM
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Ganheim
Posts: 36
Joined: 4/25/2008
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I know that this is a while after the post I'm technically responding to, but the question seems to be recurring somewhat and wanted to try to propose an answer:
quote:
ORIGINAL: rapturefish
Medication and psychiatry seem like substitutes for the power of God, as if to say that God is not strong enough to give one victory over depression. If I may, I think this is an erroneous standpoint. It's like saying "because God has the power to do anything, I'm not going to use my legs. If he wants me across the street, He'll miracle me there". Yes, God can simply "wave a magic wand" and change things, but he also gave humans tools to do some of these things "on our own" or in conjunction with religion.
As for what it is, I think calling it an illness is accurate. Just like some people can get the flu and simply sleep it off to wake up better in one day, others get a strain of influenza that their lymphatic system can't combat and they remain weakened for their entire life, struggling with the burden of their illness even as they continue to live. That's not to say that depression doesn't have a spiritual/metaphysical component - I'd actually argue against anybody who claims it doesn't: I think this world is a lot more connected than some people like to believe, and I dislike the notion that a lot of people have of spirituality, God, and all of that "supernatural" being an "out there" kind of thing when it's more like the air we breathe: it's perpetually present, all around us, and only goes unnoticed when nothing's going wrong.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Papa-san
Neither of the mental health threads are sufficient as is. There needs to be further sub-division in regards to different categories. It's the same as saying we have the 'illness' thread. That one is where you discuss cancer, heart disease, kidney failure, psoriasis, obesity, the flu, hair loss, and any other physical condition... PLEASE, allow people to break this down into pertinent threads, otherwise it will soon become impossible to glean any worthwhile information. I also wish to bring up this option to the forum administrators: I concur with everything said in this post, trying to isolate everything into two threads is just down-playing the whole spectrum of issues and I think it gives insufficient room for questions and answers. Anxiety Disorders and Mood Disorders alone have drastically different diagnosis criterion and routes to take to begin treatment, and having everything in just one consolidated thread is insufficient for the mere needs of information-gathering or conversation. A sub-section within the health & illness section might be a great way to provide people with ways to talk about doctors or methods to take their family members (or themselves, or friends...) to.
_____________________________
Writer on Fiction Press, Fan Fiction, Deviant Art.
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RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread - 6/1/2010 7:03:52 PM
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1redfern
Posts: 464
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quote:
quote:
ORIGINAL: Papa-san
Neither of the mental health threads are sufficient as is. There needs to be further sub-division in regards to different categories. It's the same as saying we have the 'illness' thread. That one is where you discuss cancer, heart disease, kidney failure, psoriasis, obesity, the flu, hair loss, and any other physical condition... PLEASE, allow people to break this down into pertinent threads, otherwise it will soon become impossible to glean any worthwhile information.I also wish to bring up this option to the forum administrators: I concur with everything said in this post, trying to isolate everything into two threads is just down-playing the whole spectrum of issues and I think it gives insufficient room for questions and answers. Anxiety Disorders and Mood Disorders alone have drastically different diagnosis criterion and routes to take to begin treatment, and having everything in just one consolidated thread is insufficient for the mere needs of information-gathering or conversation. A sub-section within the health & illness section might be a great way to provide people with ways to talk about doctors or methods to take their family members (or themselves, or friends...) to.
I agree with you and think that it would be a wonderful idea if they would create something like that.
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RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread - 6/1/2010 7:36:52 PM
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theprincessbuttercup
Posts: 1095
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From: Boo Radley's back yard
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Y'all are braver than I am. You said what I really meant when I wrote this:
Do you get the message at times that - esp in the Christian faith unfortunately - there is a subtle but very real attitude of , "We'll put up with you and pray for you, but stay in your corner"? It seems that I can go lots of places and be embraced as a mentally ill person outside of conservative Christianity, but within that circle, it is more of a "Yes, we accept you. See, we made you a table waaaaaay over there. Now don't get up and go sit with anyone else." This really really really bugs me. And I have heard the old "we do it for your protection so you won't get hurt" routine.....but I ain't buying it. Why can I examine every hangnail, every eyeshodow shade, every translation of II Hezekiah 4:15, but if I want to say........BIPOLAR, I need to go hide in the closet? It's an awful testimony to the rest of the world.
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RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread - 6/2/2010 9:40:38 PM
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manda59
Posts: 3355
Joined: 9/22/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: theprincessbuttercup
Y'all are braver than I am. You said what I really meant when I wrote this:
Do you get the message at times that - esp in the Christian faith unfortunately - there is a subtle but very real attitude of , "We'll put up with you and pray for you, but stay in your corner"? It seems that I can go lots of places and be embraced as a mentally ill person outside of conservative Christianity, but within that circle, it is more of a "Yes, we accept you. See, we made you a table waaaaaay over there. Now don't get up and go sit with anyone else." This really really really bugs me. And I have heard the old "we do it for your protection so you won't get hurt" routine.....but I ain't buying it. Why can I examine every hangnail, every eyeshodow shade, every translation of II Hezekiah 4:15, but if I want to say........BIPOLAR, I need to go hide in the closet? It's an awful testimony to the rest of the world.
You're taking it the wrong way.
Too many times over the years I've seen mental health threads elsewhere where the poster ends
up being told that mental illness is down to demon possession or lack of faith or both. That no true Christian should ever get depressed etc.
Having these two threads here means that we get a safe place where that is not allowed to happen.
This isn't somewhere where we have to skulk and hide - it's a sanctuary.
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RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread - 6/3/2010 10:29:14 AM
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1redfern
Posts: 464
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: manda59
quote:
ORIGINAL: theprincessbuttercup
Y'all are braver than I am. You said what I really meant when I wrote this:
Do you get the message at times that - esp in the Christian faith unfortunately - there is a subtle but very real attitude of , "We'll put up with you and pray for you, but stay in your corner"? It seems that I can go lots of places and be embraced as a mentally ill person outside of conservative Christianity, but within that circle, it is more of a "Yes, we accept you. See, we made you a table waaaaaay over there. Now don't get up and go sit with anyone else." This really really really bugs me. And I have heard the old "we do it for your protection so you won't get hurt" routine.....but I ain't buying it. Why can I examine every hangnail, every eyeshodow shade, every translation of II Hezekiah 4:15, but if I want to say........BIPOLAR, I need to go hide in the closet? It's an awful testimony to the rest of the world.
You're taking it the wrong way.
Too many times over the years I've seen mental health threads elsewhere where the poster ends
up being told that mental illness is down to demon possession or lack of faith or both. That no true Christian should ever get depressed etc.
Having these two threads here means that we get a safe place where that is not allowed to happen.
This isn't somewhere where we have to skulk and hide - it's a sanctuary.
I have seen people do that in this thread and in the encouragement thread, so I don't see how this is really a sanctuary. It seems like the majority of the posts made in the other thread are centered around bi-polar or depression. I have a friend who deals with several mental health problems that I never see mentioned in that thread.
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RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread - 6/3/2010 6:29:03 PM
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RainbowSkies
Posts: 347
Joined: 2/28/2007
Status: offline
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You know what? It is what it is. I would love to see threads for people who suffer from depression, ptsd,anxiety, and then a general one. But the questions have come up and the decisions have been made, and unless the Admins would agree to make that change, if you want to stay here, this is what you get.
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Formerly known as MrsTracy72
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RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread - 6/3/2010 6:32:42 PM
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RainbowSkies
Posts: 347
Joined: 2/28/2007
Status: offline
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Buttercup, I need to ask you something because I am just a dork and have not been keeping up before. Did you used to post under a different name? I thought you changed your name around the same time, we all did, but not sure.
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Formerly known as MrsTracy72
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RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread - 6/12/2010 11:31:04 PM
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Nutty4God
Posts: 2325
Joined: 11/10/2006
From: an old oak tree! :)
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: theprincessbuttercup
Yes. I was heremainsfaithful. I closed out all my accounts to everywhere right before the "suicide episode." A couple weeks later I rejoined. I didn't say anything at first because I was embarrassed, then I was afraid I broke some sort of rule by coming back in a different name. Then I just decided to go on with life. I'm still kind of embarrassed and ashamed of letting myself get that bad off. 
I'm glad you're back!
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MERRY CHRISTMAS!
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RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread - 7/13/2010 12:21:32 PM
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Bright-Star
Posts: 30
Status: offline
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Hello,
I posted this in the General Faith Section and then was told to continue my discussion here. So here it goes.
I have a Christian friend who was diagnosed with having bi-polar. She is in her 30s now but has struggled with this for many many years since her late teens. She takes medication and has tried to live a productive life but her mental disorder prevents her from doing so. She tried to hold down a job for years but kept getting fired. Her moods change rapidly and she cycles a lot throughout the day. I guess her case is pretty serious and it makes is hard for her to function in society. She tried going to school and took out loans to fund her education but she never finished.
A few years ago things got really bad and she filed for disability Social Security pay. She ended up being approved and now lives off that. She is considered disabled and no long works. She is a dear friend of mine who I have known for many years. I have seen her go up and down and I have a good idea of what she has been through. She is a Christian and she feels guilty for some reason that she has not been able to get her life in order and contribute to society like everyone else. She feels bad that she lives off of tax payers money and she thinks is un-christ like. I keep telling her its not her fault and that she is on this path for a reason and God is always with her.
What do you guys think of her situation? Is she in the wrong to be on disability and receive a monthly check? Does God look down upon her? She also has school loans that she has filed to have discharged and will no longer have to repay them back if her case is approved. Since she is not going to be working and is considered disabled, she has the option to discharge her loans and not pay them back. She feels bad for this as well, but I tell her all the time that God loves her and is in control.
How can I help her besides continue to be her friend like I have been for many years? Are there any scriptures that I can refer to to show her that she is not in sin. She always feels guilty for where she is at and feels like she is doing something wrong. Any advice? I think scripture would be the best because then I could show her in the Bible that she is not in sin and God loves her so much.
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